Advice Needed! Phosguard Versus Algae Scrubber

[Turbo's Aquatics]

Aren't you the co-owner with Josh?

No, never was. Josh and I started CWT Aquatics back in 2018 as a joint venture (separate entity) from both Turbo's Aquatics (me) and Clear Water Scrubbers (Josh). Neither Josh nor I ever had any vested interest in each other's company. I bought out Josh's half of CWT Aquatics and dissolved it & merged it into Turbo's Aquatics at the end of last year.

 

[Jposch]

Tried a 24/7 cycle on freshwater green water and plants both submerged and floating and after several months found no ill affects yet my parameters remained stable. Got the idea from pot growers. Those guys are pushing the boundary on lighting plus Reef Builders run their chaeto refugium 24/7. Was thinking slime algae found on scrubbers should work the same.

Benefit of 24/7 being one could run the lights off ph values by only turning off photosynthesis when ph exceeds certain thresholds. Research has shown that plants in freshwater continue to take certain nutrients in the absence of light although not sure how that works with marine macro algae and if those nutrients are still removed during photosynthesis periods.

As you said. Just try it and how I approach many issues that seem controversial including those that have an established mantra yet logically it might work differently if approached differently. Experience being the best teacher because what we thought yesterday might not be the same tomorrow. Knowledge changes with new experiences.

I found the short cycling ti be more effective than 24/7. Some pwm leds flash slow enough for the dark cycle to function, but many do not. A repeat timer would probably work better to allow light for more minutes of the day. Luke, a 1min on, 1sec off. You'd want rhe algae to reach photosaturatikn, so a much bigger light than usual would likely help. I run the Foursquare Aquatics Apis-300, and IMO, It's the only justifiable option over diy. The drawer design is so worth it.
Set pump to feed, let it drain a bit, pull drawer and clean both in the sink. Spray bar is cleaned every other harvest usually. Just a push fit, so no unions to deal with. This is what I remove every 5 days or so. Squeezed dry.

 

[SantaMonica]

Do you have any idea of the magnitude of the effect you are talking about?

The self-shading and self-flow-blocking is the biggest impediment to growth.

Algae scrubbers might be thought of as algae-slime scrubbers

Yes slime is the best filter of all, per unit mass, but it just does not want to hold on to screens above water. It will hold on to screens better below water, and better still to rocky textures below water, but slime still must be cleaned more often (3-5 days) and with a brush only.

 

[Apollo7235]

Thank you all for your responses and the enlightening discussion—I think I have gathered enough information to realize algae scrubbers may not be my solution, although, my problem has progressed…see attached photo. This may look like bubble algae to some extent, but it siphons away like air bubbles. I just don’t understand after so long with a beautiful, clean tank. And yes, I have to scrape that slime from the glass once every 2-3 days.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

Thank you all for your responses and the enlightening discussion—I think I have gathered enough information to realize algae scrubbers may not be my solution, although, my problem has progressed…see attached photo. This may look like bubble algae to some extent, but it siphons away like air bubbles. I just don’t understand after so long with a beautiful, clean tank. And yes, I have to scrape that slime from the glass once every 2-3 days.

If you don't understand, then please read up on dinos

 

[Garf]

The self-shading and self-flow-blocking is the biggest impediment to growth.



Yes slime is the best filter of all, per unit mass, but it just does not want to hold on to screens above water. It will hold on to screens better below water, and better still to rocky textures below water, but slime still must be cleaned more often (3-5 days) and with a brush only.

Lol

 

[Apollo7235]

If you don't understand, then please read up on dinos

I don’t understand—I have been through dinos and they did not look like this. Is that what I’m facing again?

Also, a pretty saucey response considering I am the one who started this thread looking for advice, not short-handed answers.

 

[EeyoreIsMySpiritAnimal]

I don’t understand—I have been through dinos and they did not look like this. Is that what I’m facing again?

Also, a pretty saucey response considering I am the one who started this thread looking for advice, not short-handed answers.

Sorry, didn’t mean to be “saucy”. I didn’t have time to link anything so I made the recommendation for you to look into it.

Try to assume positive intent

 

[Cory]

Thank you all for your responses and the enlightening discussion—I think I have gathered enough information to realize algae scrubbers may not be my solution, although, my problem has progressed…see attached photo. This may look like bubble algae to some extent, but it siphons away like air bubbles. I just don’t understand after so long with a beautiful, clean tank. And yes, I have to scrape that slime from the glass once every 2-3 days.

It looks like cyanobacteria of some kind not dinos. Chemiclean will kill it if its cyanobacteria. If you can see it under a scope we cab id it. However cyano ime loves settled organics. That sand you got is too large and will trap a ton of organics and food. Ime id get finer sand or go bare bottom no sand at all.

 

[Dburr1014]

Yep, looks like cyanobacteria.
However, I DON'T recommend chemiclean.
Unless, you have exhausted other natural means to defeat them.
More flow, sunnyx coral snow, sand stirrers, ect.
Chemiclean can and may mess up the natural balance again, which could lead back to dinos. Many threads posted about this.

HTH

 

[GARRIGA]

My cyano disappeared when I went back to overdosing carbon and overfeeding. Not saying this was the cure. Just how the events unfolded. Although now I have white slime. Seems every action has an unwanted reaction.

I have a thick gravel bed of coral skeletons which at one end is the entrance to a plate that runs under my gravel and acts sort of like an under-gravel filter. That plate sits on about 3 to 4 inches of 1/4” pumice and acts as a large biological filter.

Now trying to solve white slime without cutting off carbon dosing or trying to moderate it. Fun times

 

[SantaMonica]

This might help

What do all algae (and cyano too) need to survive? Nutrients. What are nutrients? Ammonia/ammonium, nitrite, nitrate, phosphate and urea are the major ones. Which ones cause most of the algae in your tank? These same ones. Why can't you just remove these nutrients and eliminate all the algae in your tank? Because these nutrients are the result of the animals you keep.

So how do your animals "make" these nutrients? Well a large part the nutrients comes from pee (urea). Pee is very high in urea and ammonia, and these are a favorite food of algae and some bacteria. This is why your glass will always need cleaning; because the pee hits the glass before anything else, and algae on the glass consume the ammonia and urea immediately (using photosynthesis) and grow more. In the ocean and lakes, phytoplankton consume the ammonia and urea in open water, and seaweed consume it in shallow areas, but in a tank you don't have enough space or water volume for this, and, your other filters or animals often remove or kill the phytoplankton or seaweed anyway. So, the nutrients stay in your tank.

Then, the ammonia/ammonium hits your rocks, and the periphyton on the rocks consumes more ammonia and urea. Periphyton is both algae and animals, and is the reason your rocks change color after a few weeks from when they were new. Then the ammonia goes inside the rock, or hits your sand, and bacteria there convert it into nitrite and nitrate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

Also let's not forget phosphate, which comes from solid organic food particles. When these particles are eaten by microbes and clean up crews, the organic phosphorus in them is converted into phosphate. However, the nutrients are still in your tank.

So whenever you have algae or cyano "problems", you simply have not exported enough nutrients out of your tank compared to how much you have been feeding (note: live rock can absorb phosphate for up to a year, making it seem like there was never a problem. Then after a year, there is a problem).

So just increase your nutrient exports. You could also reduce feeding, and this has the same effect, but it's certainly not fun when you want to feed your animals