Ammonium dosing is a bit overrated

[rishma]

I chickened out a little bit. After running a couple of weeks at zero nitrate, I felt like two of my LPS corals were retracted. I had not ramped up ammonia enough to start getting measurable nitrate. I dosed 8 ppm nitrate a couple days ago. I don’t see any change in the corals, and it very well might have had nothing to do with nitrogen supply.

I am watching nitrate fall again and adjusting my ammonia-urea dose to see what it takes to stabilize. It’s actually easier to find the dose when nitrate is measurable and I can see the rate of change. All other nutrition inputs to my laboratory are precisely fixed.

So…long way of saying there’s nothing to report

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I chickened out a little bit. After running a couple of weeks at zero nitrate, I felt like two of my LPS corals were retracted. I had not ramped up ammonia enough to start getting measurable nitrate. I dosed 8 ppm nitrate a couple days ago. I don’t see any change in the corals, and it very well might have had nothing to do with nitrogen supply.

I am watching nitrate fall again and adjusting my ammonia-urea dose to see what it takes to stabilize. It’s actually easier to find the dose when nitrate is measurable and I can see the rate of change. All other nutrition inputs to my laboratory are precisely fixed.

So…long way of saying there’s nothing to report

lol

We will keep waiting and waiting…. :)

 

[Miami Reef]

It’s actually easier to find the dose when nitrate is measurable and I can see the rate of change.

That’s why I made this thread!

…that’s also why I ended up making this chart. It’s very easy; if nitrate is undetectable and doesn’t increase by the third day of ammonia dosing, skip to the following week’s dose.

Here’s the thread with the full instructions. It’s mainly about when to use dosing pumps, how to progress the chart, as well as other fun ammonia facts.

DIY Ammonia Dosing Chart

Introduction: Many reef tanks have an incredible nitrate demand, and despite the additional fish and coral food, still struggle to make an impact on the nitrate level. This can subject corals, anemones, coralline, macro/microalgae, and clams to nutrient starvation. Any photosynthetic organism...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[rishma]

It’s actually easier to find the dose when nitrate is measurable and I can see the rate of change.

That’s why I made this thread!

…that’s also why I ended up making this chart. It’s very easy; if nitrate doesn’t increase by the third day, skip to the following week’s dose.

Here’s the thread with the full instructions. It’s mainly about when to use dosing pumps, how to progress the chart, as well as other fun ammonia facts.

DIY Ammonia Dosing Chart

Introduction: Many reef tanks have an incredible nitrate demand, and despite the additional fish and coral food, still struggle to make an impact on the nitrate level. This can subject corals, anemones, coralline, macro/microalgae, and clams to nutrient starvation. Any photosynthetic organism...

www.reef2reef.com

yes, your chart is super handy. Rather than doing the math like you did and include Urea, I’m in trial and error mode. In my previous ammonia attempt I was building nitrate near the bottom of your chart. My feeding alone was carefully portioned to balance phosphate and nitrate and gets pretty close so I really just need a bit of extra nitrogen.

Edit: I want to find the ammonia+urea dose where nitrate is stable…then I will back off a little. Even with a small nitrate build last time, my corals darkened so I plan to keep it just a little nitrogen deficient and see what happens.

 

[BriDroid]

I am really liking the ammonium bicarbonate/urea mixture! I’m making the 20g ammonium to 4g urea in 1L RODI stock solution. In my 11 nano I’m dosing 0.9ml a day, broken into 3 doses during light on. I’m holding right at 4ppm NO3 with this dose. I have to dose WAY LESS with the urea than with straight ammonium bicarbonate. I’m not seeing the corals turn brown either like I was with large doses of ammonium. I like it so far and everything seems happy and growing!

 

[rishma]

I am really liking the ammonium bicarbonate/urea mixture! I’m making the 20g ammonium to 4g urea in 1L RODI stock solution. In my 11 nano I’m dosing 0.9ml a day, broken into 3 doses during light on. I’m holding right at 4ppm NO3 with this dose. I have to dose WAY LESS with the urea than with straight ammonium bicarbonate. I’m not seeing the corals turn brown either like I was with large doses of ammonium. I like it so far and everything seems happy and growing!

My guess is that ammonia gets used very quickly by many organisms and maybe the Urea has more chance to convert to nitrate…so a smaller dose of the combined stabilizes nitrate. I’m not sure if that’s is good or bad, but definitely interesting.

 

[BriDroid]

My guess is that ammonia gets used very quickly by many organisms and maybe the Urea has more chance to convert to nitrate…so a smaller dose of the combined stabilizes nitrate. I’m not sure if that’s is good or bad, but definitely interesting.

Yeah, I’m not sure either. I just know that I’m not dosing mass quantities of ammonium bicarbonate trying to keep NO3 readable and the corals aren’t dark and brown, so something is working!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What if you just dosed less ammonia to avoid the darkening? Perhaps the urea is not doing much for the corals except becoming nitrate, as suggested above.

 

[BriDroid]

What if you just dosed less ammonia to avoid the darkening? Perhaps the urea is not doing much for the corals except becoming nitrate, as suggested above.

I tried in the past. I was always told that I have to keep measurable NO3 in the system. So I was dosing more and more ammonium bicarbonate just to see something measurable. When I decided to go back and try ammonium/urea dosing I honestly figured it would be the same way, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I'm seeing. I'm able to keep measurable NO3 and not dose a ton of solution. I'm perfectly happy with how things are working out. I'm not looking to stop the ammonium/urea dosing, I was just stating what I'm seeing with it. As unscientific as it is

 

[CHSUB]

I was always told that I have to keep measurable NO3 in the system

Why and by who? And measured how?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I tried in the past. I was always told that I have to keep measurable NO3 in the system. So I was dosing more and more ammonium bicarbonate just to see something measurable. When I decided to go back and try ammonium/urea dosing I honestly figured it would be the same way, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I'm seeing. I'm able to keep measurable NO3 and not dose a ton of solution. I'm perfectly happy with how things are working out. I'm not looking to stop the ammonium/urea dosing, I was just stating what I'm seeing with it. As unscientific as it is

I think if you observe the corals carefully and are dosing ammonia, backing off is a fine plan. Alternatively, as a learning experiment, it would be interesting to know if less ammonia plus nitrate was the same as less ammonia plus urea.

 

[Troylee]

I think if you observe the corals carefully and are dosing ammonia, backing off is a fine plan. Alternatively, as a learning experiment, it would be interesting to know if less ammonia plus nitrate was the same as less ammonia plus urea.

So with 25 grams of ammonia to a liter of rodi my n03 runs at 10 while dosing 60ml daily.
Mixing 20g of ammonia with 5grams urea my n03 climbed to 20 dosing the same 60ml daily.. I like the 20 so I’m staying with it personally

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

So with 25 grams of ammonia to a liter of rodi my n03 runs at 10 while dosing 60ml daily.
Mixing 20g of ammonia with 5grams urea my n03 climbed to 20 dosing the same 60ml daily.. I like the 20 so I’m staying with it personally

Interesting. Seems like the N in urea is more likely to end up as nitrate than is the ammonia.

 

[rishma]

I tried in the past. I was always told that I have to keep measurable NO3 in the system. So I was dosing more and more ammonium bicarbonate just to see something measurable. When I decided to go back and try ammonium/urea dosing I honestly figured it would be the same way, but I was pleasantly surprised with what I'm seeing. I'm able to keep measurable NO3 and not dose a ton of solution. I'm perfectly happy with how things are working out. I'm not looking to stop the ammonium/urea dosing, I was just stating what I'm seeing with it. As unscientific as it is

I think if you observe the corals carefully and are dosing ammonia, backing off is a fine plan. Alternatively, as a learning experiment, it would be interesting to know if less ammonia plus nitrate was the same as less ammonia plus urea.

It’s hard to know if urea is doing anything , but since there is some evidence it’s used by corals I think it’s an interesting thing to add. More interesting than nitrate anyway. Know how much is being used directly will be though.

 

[BriDroid]

Why and by who? And measured how?

It seems like everyone says it?

I was running no measurable NO3 for a few months. I was dosing TM Plus-NP and Amino-Organic and keeping my PO4 around 0.1ppm. Algae growth was nuts. I was scraping the glass twice a day sometimes.

I watched a video by Charles Delbeek about the NP Molar ratio. Since then I’ve been trying to target his 50:1 molar ratio and things look so much better. Coral growth and colors are good and I scrape maybe once every 3rd day. NO3/PO4 X 1.53=N:P Molar ratio. Seems like there’s something to it???

 

[Dread Pirate Dave]

Ammonium dosing is the new flavor of the day. Everyone is touting its benefits as if it’s unlocked the missing puzzle piece to a successful reef aquarium.

Some continue dosing ammonia even when their tank is already overflowing with nitrate, and others have even started considering urea dosing, which is essentially urine, as a nitrogen source.


It’s my opinion that the trend for ammonium dosing and its usefulness is a bit blown out of proportion. The standard dose is about 0.1 ppm - 0.2 ppm ammonium per day. Some people go a bit higher, but not usually. That corresponds to an equivalent 0.36 - 0.72 ppm nitrate increase per day.

While it may seem a lot, in a tank with an incredibly high demand, might feel like chasing a moving goalpost.


I’ve seen people try battling dinos and low nitrate tanks with ammonium, and I’ve quickly noticed how much a painstakingly slow and frustrating process it’s become.

My opinion? If nitrate is especially low in an incredibly high demand tank, rather than trying to tinker with slow doses of ammonium, adjusting and testing frequently, and watching as the dinos suck up the minuscule ammonia that is added, it’s significantly easier to immediately front-load the tank with ~10 ppm NO₃ and then adjust as needed with increased fish feedings or ammonium.

I’d like to limit N limitations immediately, then worry about allowing corals to have their “preferred” N source.


Speaking of which, do corals actually need to work that much harder to use nitrate? The hobby has been dosing straight nitrate for decades, and the success rate seemed very good for corals. People back then used to treat nitrate dosing the same way as how we’re are currently treating ammonia dosing today.

In general, I think the energy corals expend to use nitrate isn’t as significant as it’s made out to be, but I haven’t looked at the research.

Does anyone actually know how much energy corals waste to convert nitrate into ammonium? I predict it’s far less than we assume.

I can't say anything about how it rates but it was the easiest solution to raise my nitrates. If it works it works.

 

[rishma]

Why and by who? And measured how?

It seems like everyone says it?

I was running no measurable NO3 for a few months. I was dosing TM Plus-NP and Amino-Organic and keeping my PO4 around 0.1ppm. Algae growth was nuts. I was scraping the glass twice a day sometimes.

I watched a video by Charles Delbeek about the NP Molar ratio. Since then I’ve been trying to target his 50:1 molar ratio and things look so much better. Coral growth and colors are good and I scrape maybe once every 3rd day. NO3/PO4 X 1.53=N:P Molar ratio. Seems like there’s something to it???

I’m glad you’ve found some success.

I watched the Delbeek talk. I don’t recall a first principles explanation for why a ratio would matter. Maybe I missed it. Not understanding the why is what makes me skeptical.

It just so happens that I measured my nitrate and phosphate this morning. 6.6/0.21 x 1.53 =48

 

[BriDroid]

It just so happens that I measured my nitrate and phosphate this morning. 6.6/0.21 x 1.53 =48

For some reason, the closer I stay to 50, the less nuisance algae I have??? There’s got to be something to it??? Or just dumb luck

 

[rishma]

It just so happens that I measured my nitrate and phosphate this morning. 6.6/0.21 x 1.53 =48

For some reason, the closer I stay to 50, the less nuisance algae I have??? There’s got to be something to it??? Or just dumb luck

I don’t know how having plenty of nitrate and phosphate reduces algae growth but I believe your observations!

 

[BriDroid]

I don’t know how having plenty of nitrate and phosphate reduces algae growth but I believe your observations!

When I was keeping 0 NO3 and 0.1 PO4, algae was insane?