Analyzing a Bacterial Method for Dinoflagellates (and cyano?)

[CoralClasher]

What’s your magnesium level?

Last time I checked 1440. My test kit was way off from ICP test so I haven't checked in a while. I was using core7 up till Monday when I saw a jump in alkalinity so I stopped dosing right away. I was steady at 7dkh now it went up to 8.6

 

[CoralClasher]

That does look like a massive bacterial bloom. You could try reducing the dose but its not a bad thing just unsightly

This is the same stuff that bloomed when I was using a biopellet reactor and was told to not use it anymore

 

[CoralClasher]

So today is when I'm supposed to start skimmer and kill bacteria but my Dinos are not gone should I keep dosing vodka till they are all gone? More bacteria without skimmer? What will happen to the bacteria if I never run skimmer?

 

[Victoria M]

So today is when I'm supposed to start skimmer and kill bacteria but my Dinos are not gone should I keep dosing vodka till they are all gone? More bacteria without skimmer? What will happen to the bacteria if I never run skimmer?

watching for this answer along with ya!

 

[CoralClasher]

I have been adding phosphate and nitrogen for months now. Sunday phosphate 0.3 No3 around 15-20ppm. Monday was day one of bacteria and vodka. Tuesday morning phosphate test 0.13, No3 about 15ppm I added enough phosphate to bring it up to 0.23. Wednesday phosphate test 0.03, No3 10-15ppm I added lots more phosphate. This morning phosphate test 0.00 No3 under 10ppm. Maybe this will help someone figure out what's going on with my Dino problem?

 

[CoralClasher]

That does look like a massive bacterial bloom. You could try reducing the dose but its not a bad thing just unsightly

I'm starting to think the white slime I'm seeing is the Dino mucus. Is it possible for bacteria to form a slime like that?

 

[taricha]

I'm starting to think the white slime I'm seeing is the Dino mucus. Is it possible for bacteria to form a slime like that?

The white slime is bacteria. if you go back a few pages in this thread I posted pictures, close up and microscope of the stuff. Adding a large carbon dose as we are doing along with adding waste away causes the growth of lots of bacteria, both in the water and in films on surfaces. That is a central point of the method. Not a side effect to be avoided.
However you are mixing methods with dosing phosphate and nitrate while adding huge carbon doses to an already growing bacterial bloom. Your results are unpredictable, and I don't think anybody would recommend that right now. It's the sort of thing that we might do in a test beaker to see what to expect. But definitely pump the brakes on that.

 

[CoralClasher]

The white slime is bacteria. if you go back a few pages in this thread I posted pictures, close up and microscope of the stuff. Adding a large carbon dose as we are doing along with adding waste away causes the growth of lots of bacteria, both in the water and in films on surfaces. That is a central point of the method. Not a side effect to be avoided.
However you are mixing methods with dosing phosphate and nitrate while adding huge carbon doses to an already growing bacterial bloom. Your results are unpredictable, and I don't think anybody would recommend that right now. It's the sort of thing that we might do in a test beaker to see what to expect. But definitely pump the brakes on that.

So a phosphate reading of 0.00 is ok during this method? Should I not clean the slime of glass? Days 4-7 says skimmer should be turned on. Do I turn skimmer off at night? My skimmer has been on for 9 hours now and have added the peroxide. Water is almost clear.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

I'm on day four is this the bacteria I'm supposed to have? Kinda hard to get good pictures with all the air bubbles but it's white slime covering the glass you can really see it when I use the glass scraper.

The bubbles are still pretty large... not much dwell time to allow for efficient gas exchange.

It should look like a fine mist/smoke...

 

[Cruz_Arias]

So a phosphate reading of 0.00 is ok during this method? Should I not clean the slime of glass? Days 4-7 says skimmer should be turned on. Do I turn skimmer off at night? My skimmer has been on for 9 hours now and have added the peroxide. Water is almost clear.

Quick question, on Day 2 or Day 3, did you get a bacterial bloom? Where the water appeared very hazy?

If not, the bacteria didn't have a chance to perform.

Lastly, what were your parameters before and during the regimen?

Wanting to know, Ca, Alk, Mag, Specific Gravity, temperature, and pH, if possible.

Thank you.

 

[CoralClasher]

Quick question, on Day 2 or Day 3, did you get a bacterial bloom? Where the water appeared very hazy?

If not, the bacteria didn't have a chance to perform.

Lastly, what were your parameters before and during the regimen?

Wanting to know, Ca, Alk, Mag, Specific Gravity, temperature, and pH, if possible.

Thank you.

Day two had a haze not to bad tho. The white slime was pretty bad day two and three. Sunday was day 0 and tested Ca 430 alkalinity 7 dkh mag around 1440 didn't test pH temp 80 degrees SG 1.026 Monday didn't test just added bacteria and vodka. Tuesday only tested alkalinity and nutrients alkalinity jumped a little so I stopped dosing core7 figuring things went to Hurricane mode. My alkalinity has been rising and nutrients dropping now 8.6 dkh tested pH yesterday at 7.8

 

[CoralClasher]

Just tested Ca 454

 

[CoralClasher]

No livestock loss, my birds nest isn't so happy looking today. I read people doing this method a few times so I'm pretty sure I'm doing right and will follow the instructions till the end unless someone thinks I should be more aggressive now?

 

[CoralClasher]

Day 5 now I added the bacteria and vodka 2 hours ago. Skimmer off over night. White slime almost gone water is pretty clear. Alkalinity dropped a little 8.2 phosphate 0.00 pH 7.8. Fish have never been happier. I still would like to here 0 phosphate is ok during this method.

 

[Cruz_Arias]

At an Alk of 8.2, you're pH (if using fresh air, CO2 @400ppm) you should be at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4.

I'm not sure you're following the regimen but rather doing a self interpretation.

I'm confused. It was never written to dose no3 or po4 back to the system during the regimen. Where'd that come from?

 

[CoralClasher]

At an Alk of 8.2, you're pH (if using fresh air, CO2 @400ppm) you should be at a pH of 8.3 to 8.4.

I'm not sure you're following the regimen but rather doing a self interpretation.

I'm confused. It was never written to dose no3 or po4 back to the system during the regimen. Where'd that come from?

I haven't added any nitrogen yet but the phosphate is my own experience with my Dinos anything under 0.16 and they bloom. In the past I've used Dr. Tims not in this method but as directed on the bottle and my Dinos just laughed at it and bloomed even harder.

 

[CoralClasher]

No where in the direction says not to add phosphate watched YouTube video and said just feed a little less and I kinda feel adding phosphate is feeding the tank and I definitely cut back on adding phosphate but not completely stop.

 

[CoralClasher]

So if you think I messed up by adding phosphate and low pH should I stop the method now or finish two more days? If this method doesn't work this time when should I try again?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here is a break down of the reactions taking place.

As you can see, keeping O2 available and CO2 at its lowest (around 400ppm) is crucial to aerobic digestion (ATAD)

I'm still not seeing a reason to think that normal to high pH (low CO2) is important in aerobic metabolism of organics in a marine system.

If you want to take lessons from your own field, this site suggests that pH 6.7 to 7.5 is fine. In seawater, that pH is created by much higher CO2 than 400 ppm. More like 4,000 ppm. You cannot extrapolate pH effects of CO2 in freshwater to the same pH in seawater.

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"A stable environment throughout a biological system is critical for an aerobic wastewater treatment system’s efficient operation. The system’s microorganisms need an environment with a stable pH, adequate nutrients and alkalinity to support the biological conversion of organic waste. In general the optimum pH range for bacteria growth is 6.5 to 7.5. "

If we switch to a marine system, here's a study that showed that higher CO2 led to faster destruction of organics by bacteria:

http://webdoc.sub.gwdg.de/ebook/dissts/Bremen/Piontek2009.pdf

"An increase of temperature and pCO2 as expected for the near future led to a substantial acceleration of organic matter degradation in experimental studies. Higher degradation rates were primarily induced by temperature and pH effects on bacterial extracellular enzymes that increased rates of polymer hydrolysis. "

 

[Cruz_Arias]

That's great that theoretically there are allowances and ranges, but pushing the boundaries on the aerobic reactions has shown increases in overall productivity of the bacterial species in this method.

Why stay in the box when the availability to operate outside the box delivers the required results?