Apex and heaters?

am3gross · Dec 25, 2020

I am doing some research on the Apex and heaters. I want to make sure that I will be able to control my heaters with the Apex. The question I have is, can I control (2) 800 watt heaters with out messing up the EB832?

I have read where some have hooked there Inkbirds into the EB832, to have extra protection.

I have read where certain plugs on the 832 are manual, or will produce a "click" sound when being activated.

I just done know if 2 800 watt heater would be to much for the 832.

thanks for any inputs

lapin · Dec 25, 2020

The bar has a 15 amp circuit breaker, if I recall. 800 watts @ 120v should be around 8 amps. So I would guess not, if both are on at the same time.

Mical · Dec 25, 2020

@SuncrestReef would be your best reference

SuncrestReef · Dec 25, 2020

Each output on the EB832 has a limit of 7 amps, and the overall limit for the whole EB832 is 15 amps. A heater at 800 watts would be about 6.67 amps (amps = watts / volts), so technically it would not overload a single output, and two would not overload the 15 amp limit. However, you'd need to be very careful with any other devices you intend to run (such as skimmers, pumps, lights, etc.) on the same EB832 since you'd only have about 1.6 watts of capacity left when both heaters are on.

The best practice is to use a separate heater controller plugged into the EnergyBar, and use the Apex as an emergency backup to turn off the heater if the temperature probe reads too high.

am3gross · Dec 25, 2020

Wow, I am trying to wrap my head around this honestly, I have wanted an Apex for so long.

So since I can not plug (2) heaters into the same 832, could I have 2 832's, and have 1 heater plugged into each 832 and have the Apex turn the heaters on and off that way? I am assuming yes and that this would be the safest way, but we all know what happens when you assume.

RC Reefer 5184 · Dec 25, 2020

That is exactly what I do. Run two 832 with 1 heater plugged into a different one. Never had a issue.

am3gross · Dec 25, 2020

RC Reefer 5184 said:
That is exactly what I do. Run two 832 with 1 heater plugged into a different one. Never had a issue.

What size heaters are you running? I know I may be under the 7 amps, just wondering if being that close to max for one outlet will cause premature wear on the outlet.

RC Reefer 5184 · Dec 25, 2020

I am running two 500w heaters. You will want to have more so you can use your apex to its fullest. Not just two heaters. Lol.

am3gross · Dec 26, 2020

@SuncrestReef Can I buy one of the older EB4 to use with the newer Apex?

am3gross · Dec 26, 2020

"Any module that uses AquaBus cables to communicate with the base unit then those modules will communicate with the new Apex base unit. The only down side is you will not get power monitoring for individual outlets and I feel this is one the most valuable features that the new EB832 offers."

Found this on the Neptune website, however so far it is the only confirmation that I can use it. Is this true?

SuncrestReef · Dec 26, 2020

am3gross said:
@SuncrestReef Can I buy one of the older EB4 to use with the newer Apex?

Yes, the EB4, EB6, and EB8 modules are all compatible with the new Apex and Apex-EL.

garbled · Dec 26, 2020

For heavy loads, the older EB4's are really good. You still have a 15A total limit for the unit (be careful you don't hit your house's breaker limit!) however the outlets are all relay based, and it has 3 x 8A and 1 x 12A. Which means you can run a massive load on that one 12A outlet.

I use an EB8 and 2 EB832's with my main tank (new Apex), and I have tested my EB4 with it. I still use an EB4 by itself on an old classic unit on my other tank.

am3gross · Dec 26, 2020

garbled said:
For heavy loads, the older EB4's are really good. You still have a 15A total limit for the unit (be careful you don't hit your house's breaker limit!) however the outlets are all relay based, and it has 3 x 8A and 1 x 12A. Which means you can run a massive load on that one 12A outlet.

I use an EB8 and 2 EB832's with my main tank (new Apex), and I have tested my EB4 with it. I still use an EB4 by itself on an old classic unit on my other tank.

This is what I was thinking also, As I read more into it I think this would be the way to go. I can not justify spending another 300 bucks essentially just for my heater, and I can not justify spending the money I have on just plugging in 2 heaters to it. But I can see buying a EB4 and using that for one heater and then the EB832 for the rest of the equipment in the sump, which really is not that much.

I understand that the only draw back using the older EB's is there is no way to track the wattage being used.

garbled · Dec 26, 2020

Yeah, but it's not that big a deal. It does report amps for the whole unit. Tracking the blips of 800W heaters turning on and off is probably not worth $300.

BTW, I thought about going with 800's on my 800g tank, but ultimately went with 3x500. I have a pretty advanced programming setup, where I alternate which one is used, and then have a third as a backup if the other ones can't keep up. So I end up with a potential of 1500W, but most of the time only use a single. (more or less, if I can't hit target temp in X minutes I add the second heater, and then in X more minutes I add the third in and send an alarm)

It works pretty well and I feel it's stable. My house doesn't get very cold though.

am3gross · Dec 26, 2020

garbled said:
Yeah, but it's not that big a deal. It does report amps for the whole unit. Tracking the blips of 800W heaters turning on and off is probably not worth $300.

BTW, I thought about going with 800's on my 800g tank, but ultimately went with 3x500. I have a pretty advanced programming setup, where I alternate which one is used, and then have a third as a backup if the other ones can't keep up. So I end up with a potential of 1500W, but most of the time only use a single. (more or less, if I can't hit target temp in X minutes I add the second heater, and then in X more minutes I add the third in and send an alarm)

It works pretty well and I feel it's stable. My house doesn't get very cold though.

You my friend are lucky! My wife keeps the house in the 60's all summer and in the winter she is in this Bi#$% with a fan on and all the windows open blowing 20 degree gusts of wind on my face...

My heaters are coming on and off once every hour for about 20 minutes. I feel I need to have both on at the same time because when I had the ink bird setup there were times only 1 heater came on and it was not enough as it would run constantly.

garbled · Dec 27, 2020

Nope, that's fair. If my house were kept colder the 500's would run alot harder. You should probably use my code anyway. It keeps the wear on the heaters down alot. Basically if it's day you run H1, and at night you run H2, but if H1 runs for X minutes kick on H2, and vice versa. It evens out the use more, and gives you more gradual heating. You can adjust the timers as needed.

I think I found the code originally on the neptune forum, but posted my modified 3-heater version in my build thread.

SPR1968 · Dec 27, 2020

As already said I would use a good temperature controller in between the heater and Apex and I’ll tell you why.

On my S650 I’ve always used one of these in between the heater and Apex

D-D Dual Heating & Cooling Controller | D-D The Aquarium Solution

www.theaquariumsolution.com

On my new large system I thought I would give apex full control relying on its temperature probe. all was well for a few months....

Then while I was about 3000 miles away on holiday, I was just checking all was in order, yes it was, so why were the heaters ‘on’. The Apex temperature probe had failed and of course Apex turned the heaters on. If it wasn’t for me randomly checking in and catching it things would have gone very wrong. Luckily I could manually turn them off via Apex so it does have its uses!

I now have a controller in between so although Apex monitors and has some control, it’s not in primary control.