Apex Trident Giving Bad CA Range???

italquam · Sep 8, 2020

My Apex Trident is giving me a bad CA range reading?

Neptune supports is putting me through the ringer with steps , now they want me to take the cover off the unit to see the Culvette and take a 40 minute video and upload it to YouTube and send it to them. It is literally becoming more of a headache to own the Trident in my experience. I asked Neptune if i can just send the unit in for a check on it. I find that much easier than all the back and forth with emails, uploads, etc and now record a video, this is crazy.

User1 · Sep 8, 2020

Sounds like you are posting to vent as there really isn't anything to go on here other than you believe the Trident is giving you a bad Ca reading. Compared to what? Was there a calibration reference / solution used to reference any manual testing? The list goes on and on.

I can't speak about your situation but here is what I know about a possible Ca drift. There are a few threads here and there and Neptune Support has a series of questions they want the hobbyist to answer before they go to a next step. The problem is that they asked some hobbyist to send their units to them, they did, and Neptune set it up hoping to reproduce said problem only not to be able to. So one theory is that they think it may be environment and unique to each hobbyist. Why? Because they had users send them in and they couldn't reproduce it. Furthermore when they sent the hobbyist another trident from Neptune the problem persisted. Again, leading one to believe it is environment.

So instead of sending units back and forth and what not the questions you answered problem around position, location, height, what level of reagents reported left and so on helps them build a pattern to see where it may be. To me this all seems reasonable.

The video again I can't speak of. Maybe they are trying to see what is happening during the process. If you can't do it then say as such and they will tell you what else they can do.

italquam · Sep 8, 2020

saf1 said:
Sounds like you are posting to vent as there really isn't anything to go on here other than you believe the Trident is giving you a bad Ca reading. Compared to what? Was there a calibration reference / solution used to reference any manual testing? The list goes on and on.

I can't speak about your situation but here is what I know about a possible Ca drift. There are a few threads here and there and Neptune Support has a series of questions they want the hobbyist to answer before they go to a next step. The problem is that they asked some hobbyist to send their units to them, they did, and Neptune set it up hoping to reproduce said problem only not to be able to. So one theory is that they think it may be environment and unique to each hobbyist. Why? Because they had users send them in and they couldn't reproduce it. Furthermore when they sent the hobbyist another trident from Neptune the problem persisted. Again, leading one to believe it is environment.

So instead of sending units back and forth and what not the questions you answered problem around position, location, height, what level of reagents reported left and so on helps them build a pattern to see where it may be. To me this all seems reasonable.

The video again I can't speak of. Maybe they are trying to see what is happening during the process. If you can't do it then say as such and they will tell you what else they can do.

I totally get all of that, maybe Neptune should of invented a product that wasn't so sensitive to the environment or location, for the money we pay for an item like a Trident , it should work a lot better and not be so sensitive. I guarantee on second generation you will see a lot of issues corrected. I just don't have time for all the back and forth with tech support.

TeresaRN · Oct 17, 2020

italquam said:
My Apex Trident is giving me a bad CA range reading?

Neptune supports is putting me through the ringer with steps , now they want me to take the cover off the unit to see the Culvette and take a 40 minute video and upload it to YouTube and send it to them. It is literally becoming more of a headache to own the Trident in my experience. I asked Neptune if i can just send the unit in for a check on it. I find that much easier than all the back and forth with emails, uploads, etc and now record a video, this is crazy.

I’m going through the same issue too. I made a you tube video, gave copies of my files to the engineers, and recalibrated. Then i was asked to make new water and put the sample line in the new saltwater to test. The numbers read! But, then I put my line back in the sump and it’s “bad range” again. I’m waiting to hear back on what to do next. I checked with Hanna and API and the calcium is in the 470’s. I hope I don’t have to recalibrate again because marine depot and BRS are out of stock.
let me know how it worked it for you. I’m a full time RN so I’m not home to figure it out sooner. I’ve looked on the web and your problem is closely related to mine. Thanks.

Ippyroy · Oct 17, 2020

TeresaRN said:
I’m going through the same issue too. I made a you tube video, gave copies of my files to the engineers, and recalibrated. Then i was asked to make new water and put the sample line in the new saltwater to test. The numbers read! But, then I put my line back in the sump and it’s “bad range” again. I’m waiting to hear back on what to do next. I checked with Hanna and API and the calcium is in the 470’s. I hope I don’t have to recalibrate again because marine depot and BRS are out of stock.
let me know how it worked it for you. I’m a full time RN so I’m not home to figure it out sooner. I’ve looked on the web and your problem is closely related to mine. Thanks.

I just ordered reagent from aquacave.

italquam · Oct 17, 2020

TeresaRN said:
I’m going through the same issue too. I made a you tube video, gave copies of my files to the engineers, and recalibrated. Then i was asked to make new water and put the sample line in the new saltwater to test. The numbers read! But, then I put my line back in the sump and it’s “bad range” again. I’m waiting to hear back on what to do next. I checked with Hanna and API and the calcium is in the 470’s. I hope I don’t have to recalibrate again because marine depot and BRS are out of stock.
let me know how it worked it for you. I’m a full time RN so I’m not home to figure it out sooner. I’ve looked on the web and your problem is closely related to mine. Thanks.

I had to take my unit apart and clean the culvette area , changed all reagent and it solved the issue.

robbyg · Oct 17, 2020

saf1 said:
The video again I can't speak of. Maybe they are trying to see what is happening during the process. If you can't do it then say as such and they will tell you what else they can do.

Yes but just keep in mind that it has to be reasonable requests! And this is not!
A lot of people have never uploaded a YouTube video and even if they have it is a really time consuming task if you live in the sticks and have slow Internet upload speeds.
I have never heard of a company asking someone to upload a video before. A few people will do one on their own just as leverage in case they get crappy CS.

robbyg · Oct 17, 2020

italquam said:
I had to take my unit apart and clean the culvette area , changed all reagent and it solved the issue.

Mine is about 6 months old and I have noticed that over a 30 day period the ALK goes off by .4 dKH and the Ca by 30ppm. In both cases the Trident was reading lower than my Hanna kits. I kind of suspect that Neptune is going to be feeling a whole lot of pain very soon if they don't get that service system in place soon. Lots of people like me will be happy with a repair kit, but there are an equal amount of people who are not going to want to pull the unit apart. This is going to lead to some explosive posts if they cannot handle the servicing quickly and affordably.

MurphyJ · Oct 18, 2020

TeresaRN said:
I’m going through the same issue too. I made a you tube video, gave copies of my files to the engineers, and recalibrated. Then i was asked to make new water and put the sample line in the new saltwater to test. The numbers read! But, then I put my line back in the sump and it’s “bad range” again. I’m waiting to hear back on what to do next. I checked with Hanna and API and the calcium is in the 470’s. I hope I don’t have to recalibrate again because marine depot and BRS are out of stock.
let me know how it worked it for you. I’m a full time RN so I’m not home to figure it out sooner. I’ve looked on the web and your problem is closely related to mine. Thanks.

Interesting. Mine started doing the rapid CA climb after ALK change when it was 3 months old. I reported the issue, went through the steps, and was told to do a full reagent change and do a factory reset. I specifically asked if supplements or additives would cause the issue and was told no. The tech suggested that maybe the placement of the unit was causing the issue so I moved the unit down inside a cabinet. No change. The unit still starts the rapid rise after ALK change and I have to live with only ALK reading for a month.
If they are now asking you to do a reading with fresh made water then that opens up a whole new line of review. But why would a full change of reagents reset? Is it due to age of the CA reagent and how it interacts with supplements?

My job is demanding with 50 hour weeks the norm. I also care for an elderly family member. My “personal time” is limited which is why I purchased the Apex and Trident in the first place. I am running new water today and will do the check - moving the line, priming the supply line, running ca test, moving line back, priming again, running a ca test - this is an hour out of a very packed day already. I just want clarity on what they have found and to know what their plan is to resolve. Just a simple “Hey, we tested the placement and that did not impact so now we are looking at xxx”.

DarthSimon · Oct 20, 2020

I feel your guys pain. I would think Neptune Systems is working on these issues internally? Hopefully these Ca climbs we are experiencing will be resolved with AOS Updates by end of year.

Jon's Reef · Oct 20, 2020

I had that error recently. One of the reagent tubes had popped off the "star connector thing" on the inside because I had accidentally pinched the waste tube. I cleaned the spill, put it all back together. A few days later, I got this error (bad Ca Range).

Took off the little window in the front and primed reagent B. No liquid was coming.

Found the issue... the little white thing that pinches the tube (located around the star thing) was stuck in the closed position. Gently pulled the tube out of the pinching valve, then used a tiny eyeglass screwdriver to manually "unstick" the pinching valve. Put the tube back in and then did the priming again. Good to go.

In this case, nothing bad about the trident (my fault that the waste line got pinched). In fact it was very straightforward to troubleshoot.

Deezill · Oct 20, 2020

Now I am getting Bad CA range and I just got my Trident back from Neptune today because it would not pull a water sample. I am contacting them again tomorrow. I hate this amount of grief I have experienced with this for as much as it cost.

TeresaRN · Oct 31, 2020

So finally I got my issue cleared up. I had bad calcium range because my level was very low. I used API and it was low, my Hanna checker said it was normal. When I dosed a bit of calcium, there was finally a reading. The Neptune representative was very helpful. He called me and explained that Calcium Hanna checkers give varying results. He has seen some off at least 150ppm. He said Hanna is great but the calcium checker is not the best on the market. He asked me to triple check by taking a sample to my LFS for testing and sure enough my calcium was very low.
I’ve been reefing for about 3 years. I won an apex from BRS Supply when I started. Since I’ve purchased MP40s, Radions, etc. It was a lesson for me to double check my values using other methods. I thought Hanna was very accurate especially because of all the steps taken to check Ca. I know trident isn’t perfect either, I just assumed it was the new trident, not me. The Neptune representative was very helpful and although I needed to take many steps I’m glad I did.

Deezill · Oct 31, 2020

Deezill said:
Now I am getting Bad CA range and I just got my Trident back from Neptune today because it would not pull a water sample. I am contacting them again tomorrow. I hate this amount of grief I have experienced with this for as much as it cost.

I found out about my issue. I tested with Salifert and it said my Ca was like 400 something but Trident was correct it was low. So the bad error range was because my Ca was low. I was shocked because my Ca has never been low. My Ca is back at a healthy level of 420 everything is happy again.

reefing89 · Nov 1, 2020

hi if anybody can please give me the steps with the 40 min recording and other steps that neptune has asked for so i can do that myself. So i can have it ready for them tomorrow because i just got the bad ca range error message. this is my second trident. my first 1 gave out within a month and few days, got a brand new replacement and within a few weeks now i am dealing with this. Dont get me wrong but customer service is great.

reefing89 · Nov 1, 2020

also i just change all of my reagents.

Sisterlimonpot · Nov 1, 2020

reefing89 said:
also i just change all of my reagents.

And I take it that you bumped the trident reading with another calcium test to ensure that it's not in fact reading correctly??

Deezill · Nov 1, 2020

reefing89 said:
hi if anybody can please give me the steps with the 40 min recording and other steps that neptune has asked for so i can do that myself. So i can have it ready for them tomorrow because i just got the bad ca range error message. this is my second trident. my first 1 gave out within a month and few days, got a brand new replacement and within a few weeks now i am dealing with this. Dont get me wrong but customer service is great.

Imma ask because It was my problem. Are you sure your CA is in the range the Trident can read?