ARID Reactor - Chaeto dying

[dannyt]

Hi,

I purchased an ARID reactor several months ago and am having lots of trouble getting it going. Chaeto dies/melts away on me after several weeks.

Prior to adding the ARID I ran GFO. I had several accidents with the GFO and due to it seeping into my water column I lost a lot of colonies . I wanted to go with a more natural approach and switched to using Chaeto. Its been about 6 months since I've discontinued GFO use. When my GFO disaster happened, I did several large water changes over a 4 week time period. During that time I purchased chaeto and seeded both the ARID and a fuge area in my sump (which previously only had live rock). I also purchased a Kessil Light for the fuge.

I don't conduct regular water changes. For the past 3 months or so, my po4/no3 hasn't dropped. It moves +/- 10% but thats about it ( I guess its a good sign that its not going up ). However, here is the I'm reason for writing this post. While my fuge is not growing chaeto "like mad", the chaeto is growing, none is dieing and it looks healthy.
However, my ARID, I can't keep chaeto alive in there for more than a few weeks at a time. Each time I "reboot", I clean the dead chaeto out completely along with the entire interior of the ARID. I then try a different combination of flow and lighting schedule. I've done 24 hours vs 12 hours, slow flow with heavy flow, I even went as far to add an c02 reactor via in injector into the inlet of the reactor thinking my PH was too high and that i had a lack of Carbon. No luck. Meantime, as I mentioned, the fuge area of my sump seems to be able to at least deal with the keeping the po4/no3 levels from going up, and considering that the cheato in the reactor was dying and releasing it back into my water column, the fuge is probably doing more than i think.

the fuge and cheato get water from two different sources. My sump gets water from two overflows, one on the left of my tank and one on my right. the left overflow goes into filter socks --> skimmer --> return section. The right overflow goes into fuge --> return section. The ARID is getting its water supply from the skimmer section and dumping it back into the fuge area. (ARID Is on the right of the sump). So if anything, my fuge area should be getting " clean water " from the ARID dumped into it and technically prohibiting its growth, but clearly thats not happening.

Heres a completed background:

• 250 Gallon Mixed Reef - Medium-Heaving Stock with about 25 fish
• Dosing 4 part triton method, monthly water tests
• Large Vertex Skimmer
• Carbon (triton)

-Triton tests come back pretty spot on.

My current parameters:

• 34.5 PPT
• 79' F (both heater and chiller installed)
• ALK 8.5
• ph 8.25 - 8.35
• po4 0.30
• no3 10~

In addition to the 4 part I dose Iron+Manganese currently.

Finally here are some pics.

"A restart" - old cheato removed, new chaeto loaded

11 days later - checkup, chaeto remove , rinsed, and put back into ARID, no new cheato added

8 days later - cheato dead (total 19 days since initial load of healthy cheato)

As mentioned, the above has happened over 6 or so resets, each time I've changed the combination of water pressure/ GPH traveling through the reactor, light schedule and then introduced c02. Heres another set of pictures from the most recent failure:


Looking for any suggestions or health!! Thanks

 

[Brew12]

How many hours a day do you leave the lights off for the ARID?

 

[dannyt]

My most recent attempt has been 12 on, 12 off. Previously i've tried 24 on/ never off and 10 on/14 off.

 

[Brew12]

Let's see if anyone else has an idea. #reefsquad

 

[twilliard]

lighting or lack of is what my mind is saying by looking at the lighting tube.

 

[redfishbluefish]

Could it by you're packing too much cheato into that thing so that it's not getting decent lighting. The demo's I've seen, they don't "seed" the reactor with that much cheato.

 

[kschweer]

Maybe @uniquecorals or @joefishUC can help.

 

[Irsug1]

I have my reactor setting 20 on and 4 off.

 

[thetedinator]

What is the water flow through the ARID? What pump are you using? Is the feed pump running 24/7?

 

[Jonty]

This was my experience exactly after six months I just gave up. The feedPump ran 24/7 lighting schedules were adjusted several different ways ext.I did spend $300 on buying Cheato during that time; tank suffered, and six months later I am only starting to get it back on track.

 

[stunreefer]

It is being outcompeted by the standard fuge, and/or you have low nitrates limiting growth.

You mention feeding the ARID from the skimmer section. Skimmers remove organics prior to dissolving into nutrients usable by algae. You mention the standard fuge being fed directly by an overflow, which is likely receiving more dissolved organics from display (regardless of ARID return).

An ARID puts chaeto on steroids, so to speak. Think of it like using GFO in a reactor (on steroids) versus in a media bag in sump chamber. The reactor requires a specific flow rate to operate correctly, where a media bag is set and forget (although less aggressive nutrient removal).

The ARID requires enough nutrients in the water to keep chaeto growth at a high pace, which is why Pax Bellum recommends dosing nitrates if they are limited in your system.

My recommendation is to remove your standard fuge. Then dose nitrates if they are limited.

I'm sure Joe will have more to add :)

 

[Akersta]

Not sure what size ARID unit you have but it looks smaller in diameter than my C30. I as well noticed a similar Cheato die-off after around the (6) month mark. At that point I took the reactor offline to prepare it for my new build and haven't ran since.

I would guess you are giving it too much light. I think most underestimate how effective Cheato is at absorbing nutrients and think it needs a ton of light. I was running a 12 hour light cycle and believe it was way too much. I'd suggest dropping it down to just (4) hours for a few weeks.

As far as flow goes, you might be giving it too much. I was running a dedicated Mag 5 return pump to my C30 which seemed to be perfect. Everything went to hell after I hooked up my calcium reactor to the ARID injector which I believe you are using as well. I finally read where you need a larger return pump to overcome the additional pressure loss of the injector. This required me to hook up an 80 watt Red Dragon pump dialed back which helped the reactor but was likely too much flow for the Cheato. It slowly started to die in the weeks afterwards and turned red which I'm assuming was cyno.

I'm not very familiar with the Triton method but I'd make sure to dose the nitrate solution that comes with the reactor as well at least every other day. I had both the nitrate and iron supplement on a doser. I'd also start feeding a little heaver to help everything out. I could fill my C30 unit with Cheato in a little over (7) days time running on my (55) gallon mixed reef. It wasn't until afterwards that I discovered I was stripping most nutrients out of the system by doing so despite dumping in a solo cup full of mixed coral food every other night. My phosphates and nitrates were hardly detectable.

Every time I would take my reactor offline to clean it did seem like my reef too a step in the wrong direction for a few days. I think this was partially due to the calcium reactor effluent changing but also the shock from removing the majority of the Cheato each time. It's important to only add a small amount (less than a handful) to each partition. You also have to keep it harvested well in between cleanings as it doesn't take but a few days for the Cheato and hair algae to cover up the light tube and starve everything of light. I will tell you that the easiest way I found to clean my reactor is to take outside and fill with bleach/water solution and let sit for a few minutes. It will dissolve all of the organics including any coralline growth. Just make sure you rinse very well and allow to dry. I'd let my leaf blower run inside for a few minutes to make sure all was dry.

My ARID unit worked very well but was always a pain to mess with. I'd never use the calcium reactor injector again however. I'm planning on building (4) custom Cheato reactors for my new build that are roughly 8"dia. x 60"H with dedicated circulation pumps for each and a single feed pump from my sump that I can regulate the flow and delivery to the reactors. I'm hoping that the individual flow pumps will provide the Cheato with enough flow and not deliver too many nutrients from my system constantly. It will also allow me to pulse the pump speed on occasion to keep the Cheato from clumping and shake out pods to flow into my main tank. By having (4) self contained units I'm hoping I can take one down a week for cleaning so the system isn't shocked too much. If all goes as planned I'll only have to disconnect a few fittings on the reactor, dump in a gallon of bleach, turn the circulation pump on high for an hour then let the waste drain out the bottom, rinse and refill.

Having to drain my reactor every two weeks to take outside and clean was miserable especially in the winter months. It was almost not worth having. My neighbors were always curious as to what I was doing as well.

 

[ksed]

He does appear to have sufficient No3 and Po4 in the water column.

 

[Jonty]

Dosed nitrates as well, I had good growth once for two weeks, Stunreefer do you have an Arid unit running?
I did not have a Fuge running at the time.

 

[Irsug1]

What is the water flow through the ARID? What pump are you using? Is the feed pump running 24/7?

I'm using a MJ 900

 

[thetedinator]

I have the C-24 running on my 240g. I am using Sicce Syncra Silent 1.5 (350gph). I run the pump 24/7 and the lights 12 hours. I do not have a Fuge. The ARID grows Chaeto so well I remove Chaeto about every 3 weeks. The only time I have had an issue with the ARID was when I first set it up. I did not use enough Chaeto.

 

[Jonty]

If my C30 would work like that I would try again but there is something I did wrong and ended up with results like dannyt.

 

[thetedinator]

BTW - I use cable ties to hold the Chaeto in place. I have found that to be an easy way to get consistent results.

 

[joefishUC]

Thanks for the tag. It is great to see all these PAX pics and comments.

I have a few questions.

Are you running the CORE7 Base Elements or the Reef Supplements?
How do the corals look. Growth good?
What was the level of iodine, Molybdenum on the last ICP test? Did you report any Manganese or Iron on the test?

Chaeto has limiting factors to growth. Light, nutrients and minerals. In your case all of these might be slightly compromised in not so obvious ways.

I think you might be outcompeting the algae in the ARID. A correctly sized unit does not need any additional refugium. Remember, even a skimmer is considered an effective means of nutrient export and does compete with algae for nutrients (it is a big reason why reefers use them). The PAX manufacturer would even love to see people running their tanks without skimmers putting all the nutrient export pressure on the ARID.

You also have po4 levels that are rather high at .30 I bet you are creating the perfect environment inside the ARID for nuisance and slime algae to take hold while the chaeto is having a tough time getting a start due to the lack of nutrients and/or trace elements. The iron, manganese, molybdenum you are adding via the triton elements coupled with additional PAX elements may be getting stripped out rapidly by the skimmer and additional refugium. Once the nuisance algae takes hold it will be hard for the chaeto to grow nicely.

If I were you I would do this. Make sure the ARID is sized correctly. Remove the algae in the additional refugium. Reroute the intake line for the ARID to receive water that hasn't just been skimmed. Use a bit of gfo in a small reactor to drop the PO4 levels in half. Go slow to not shock the tank. Manage alk levels while doing so. Do a few partial water changes to rebalance the water with elements, drop the po4 down to more manageable levels <.15 and then reseed the ARID. This will create the perfect chemistry to give the ARID a much better chance at impressing you with good growth.

 

[petemichelle]

BTW - I use cable ties to hold the Chaeto in place. I have found that to be an easy way to get consistent results.

how much do you remove and how often? what we see in the posted picture I assume is when you pull it out and it's full. do you trim just a section out and put it back in or do you trim and stretch so it's thinner all around and the length of each section.? I just sent one up literally 3 days ago and don't have any idea if I'm doing this right. do you take it out every week and wash the cheato like they say in tank water then put it back in? how do you do it? do you just submerge it in tank water in a 5 gal bucket and shake it around or do you actually take it all off the column and wash it and remount it? please share your success and technique? I also have a c24, but on a 150 gal system. do you ever get nuisance algae in the reactor? what are your po3/po4 readings? do your run a skimmer, uv sterilizer? GFO reactor?