Automated testing... Need some opinions please!!

[adamsfour]

I too have Trident and love it. BUT have to agree that I wish it wasn’t so flimsy. It good to here from the post reference the DOS working without issues but the DOS really is more setup and leave where the trident requires monthly interaction to change reagent.

 

[Zoaologist]

I’d do the trident with DOS

 

[2Wheelsonly]

OMG!!!! I feel terrible for anyone who spent the nearly one thousand dollars.

You almost had to assume it would fail with that monthly costs associated with the high price of entry. As mentioned in this thread if the monthly cost is equal to running an ICP test monthly.

 

[2Wheelsonly]

I thought about the Trident myself but having a hard time justifying the price when compared to other things my reef could benefit from. If I dosed it would have more value to me because I could have my apex adjust in real time but my alk demands are too high in my 300 for dosing, i'd be broke from alk/calc mix. It's not like I can adjust my calcium reactor on the fly

 

[MartinWaite]

It certainly can. Again not cheap but if you buy everything it will control everything. To control everything it needs 12 dosing pumps which I agree is crazy. 4 to control Alk ( water in, reagent in, water out, dosing tank) and 8 for the rest ( 4 for testing and 4 for dosing).

The latter 4 will not be required as the adjustment for phosphate and nitrate will not be down to dosing. Also the Alkatronic is a standalone unit it can test and dose by itself without an external doser. Although it will connect to the Dosetronic (5 dosing heads) and auto dose for Alk, cal, and mag based off the results from the Alkatronic.

 

[User1]

I'm going to keep it as real as I can and unbiased. Let me say that I own a Neptune Apex, DOS, and of course a Trident. I've been a Neptune product user since about 2000 give or take going back to their original controller with X10 relays. Having said that let me say what I typically do when these threads come up.

You have an existing controller product. Doesn't matter which one, you have one. It happens to be an Apex so financially it makes sense to look at their offering first. Thus the Trident. Trident requires a Apex so you are already invested into the ecosystem and would only be out the unit entry point of $599.00. Throw down another $100.00 for a 6 month reagent supply (depending on testing cycle) you are into automating three key elements for about $700 - $770 depending on tax. There is plenty of information on the internet, regardless of forum, that supports it works as advertised. Anyone on this forum, or others, that say reagents are bad, ION probes or discs are good, is noise. They all have their own place and Neptune went a different route for whatever reason they thought made sense. My point is this. You have an Apex already - this is your starting point. Please note I said "starting" because you have some homework to do.

GHL. Their product should be out sometime this month or in March. I do not know the exact date but they have been taking pre-orders with a $500 dollar deposit. I do not know if it requires the GHL controller (my homework nugget above) but depending on if it does, does not, this could be an alternative. Let us say it requires controller + automation system then go back to my opening paragraph and your current controller choice. It would cost you more to enter GHL's automated testing and wouldn't make sense(to me dollars and sense). Unless you wanted to change controllers. If that is something on your mind then it probably is an option. Also if it is a stand alone and meets your requirements (again, your homework) then it may run the same price, or more, than the Trident and you are off and running (again, if standalone). There are a few people on this forum that I know are interested but waiting to see how long the probes last (more homework) and replace calibration fluid.

Reef bot. Again, do not own one. Have read some great things about it. Tropic Marine is modifying one of their test kits for it because of its popularity. I personally think that is cool. I am not really going to say much more about it because it really wasn't something I've looked at other than reading some posts here and there due to curiosity. It seems to me if you buy the kits everyone recommends and stay with those it works pretty well. Again, I do not own one.

There may be a few other players coming to market sometime in the future but if your timeline is in the next two months then these are you only options. I wouldn't wait for a Trident 2.0 because this one isn't even a year old - at least I don't think. As I said above I can only speak for the Trident and it works for me and made since because I was already invested in their ecosystem. I've compared manually, ICP (ATI's), and Trident all at the same time (water sample) and numbers are within their respected margin of error.

If you have some time hit up GHL's thread and read up a bit. Compare. List what you want to do, what you have, and make a choice. There is a reason why these two companies are where they are. Best of luck whatever you choose.

 

[Rich Klein]

I had ordered the Mindstream, but luckily my credit card company refunded me 1K. Finally was able to find a Trident and hooked it up last week. Other than being disappointed that it only tests 3 parameters, it is still better than a Mindstream that tests many more, but doesn't exist ;-). Works as advertised.

 

[mtnrunner]

I really recommend Trident. Combined with DOS, it fully automates the testing and them responding appropriately with DOS. The Trident’s tasks in fusion makes setup and reagent replacement very easy and straightforward. If you need support, they are there to help.

The information that is available for you to see the testing results as values or graphs is great. It tells you how many tests remain in the reagents for each. It lets you see graphically the test results such as Alk combined with how much DOS is dosing in response.

My SPS tank is now so stable with Alk and Ca and my corals are loving it.

 

[Wolters_88]

If you didn’t have an apex setup, would you go with the reefbot?

 

[fishguy242]

If you didn’t have an apex setup, would you go with the reefbot?

hey hows the tank doing

 

[Wolters_88]

hey hows the tank doing

I figured out the issue was the pump. I pulled it out and it smelled like oil. Dumped the whole brute, scrubbed it and refilled then did a 90% water change. Guess we will see tomorrow.

 

[fishguy242]

I figured out the issue was the pump. I pulled it out and it smelled like oil. Dumped the whole brute, scrubbed it and refilled then did a 90% water change. Guess we will see tomorrow.

hope all is well talk to you tomorrow ,just glad we figured it out

 

[Wolters_88]

Ya, I have to assume that was the issue since they closed up after every bale water change.

 

[IKD]

I was asking GHL about the ION Director and wanted to share

The ION Director will use all 4 pumps just for measuring. Will need another pump set to do dosing based on results

i asked whether the water used in the test sample could be put back into the tank or if it had to be disposed of. Here is what they told me

“The ION Director uses reference water samples, that differ from your aquarium water most likely. If this is no problem, you can put it back into the tank.”

so it sounds like there will be water samples that we have to potentially replace over time instead of reagents.

 

[CoralVue_Marketing]

What ever happened to the new one that uses ION probes? Abex, Xepta AutoBalance Anything?

We are currently testing the aBex and autoBalance units here in the USA!

 

[vangvace]

I was asking GHL about the ION Director and wanted to share

The ION Director will use all 4 pumps just for measuring. Will need another pump set to do dosing based on results

i asked whether the water used in the test sample could be put back into the tank or if it had to be disposed of. Here is what they told me

“The ION Director uses reference water samples, that differ from your aquarium water most likely. If this is no problem, you can put it back into the tank.”

so it sounds like there will be water samples that we have to potentially replace over time instead of reagents.

To expound on this a bit more from what I have read: The ION director(IOND) uses 2 reference solutions per test battery of 5 parameters. Each battery of tests is all the parameters, so you cannot do just K or just NO3. For each battery of tests it is supposed to be between 5-10ml of fluid from each reference. You can set it to test once per day.

Cost wise: assuming 10ml per bottle and $25 per 1000ml bottle is 50 cents per test of 5 parameters plus Alk testing costs.

Opinion:
Putting IOND's "waste water" back into the tank is an interesting concept; dosing whatever is in the reference solutions to the tank is interesting because of how it can change the tank chemistry over time.


As for the OP's dilemma...If you are in the Apex ecosystem then leaning towards the Trident makes sense. Reefbot strikes me as a 3D printer type of tester. The next year or so seems to have some more possible shakeups with testers and controllers on the horizon.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

We are currently testing the aBex and autoBalance units here in the USA!

Jeff, can you share more info about those options in here? Info on what they test, how they work, and any expected release info? I had forgotten those were in the works.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Very few people in here are talking about the iDip in this thread. I'm also seriously looking at that option. It's not automated, but it is easy to use, and I think would make testing super easy.

 

[amps]

I've been juggling this same decision for months now and I finally settled on the GHL KH Director.

I own an Apex Classic and with Neptune failing to support the Trident on the older unit, it meant upgrading my head unit just to use it.

It's $600 for the Trident, $400 for the head unit and another $300 for the DOS if I want automated dosing. $1300 total.

For GHL, it's $850 for the KH Director and includes automatic dosing for Alk. If I upgrade to the Ion Director, it's another $850 but now I'm testing everything. $1700 total.

What really made up my mind though was the ability to add a GHL slave doser for $400 and get full automated dosing for Cal, Mag, Nitrates and have one channel to spare while barely increasing the equipment space needed. The per channel cost of the GHL dosers is 2/3 of the Neptune unit and each time I add something to the mix, I'm saving cash down the road. Tack on the lower cost of reagents and it seemed to make sense.

I also like the idea of having two eco-systems. If going the Trident route and the Apex fails, everything goes to ****. By splitting the two jobs up, each can work independently from the other and not rely on a single point of failure. Plus you can always use PH monitoring to keep an eye on the KH Director and turn it off if something should fail.

 

[CoralVue_Marketing]

Jeff, can you share more info about those options in here? Info on what they test, how they work, and any expected release info? I had forgotten those were in the works.

We're long past the ETA we told folks at MACNA, which was Christmastime. But we have the latest versions now and are putting them to the test. Carlos from our team does a pretty good explaining what they do and their capabilities in this video:




We are also the USA distributor for Focustronic. They have the Alkatronic, which measures pH and alkalinity and controls alk. It can be used as a standalone device or with other equipment. They have the Dosetronic, which is a 5-channel doser that you can use as a standalone unit or with the Alkatronic. Looking ahead, they have the Mastertronic, which measures NO3, PO4, Ca, Mg, OLI (not sure what that is yet). Then there is the Solartronic, which is an LED light that receives data from the Mastertronic and Alkatronic to auto-adjust PAR. Finally, there is the Powertronic, which I don't know much about, but from Focustronic Facebook posts it is a "smart power bar / plugs to turn off/on devices based on measured parameters."