Best lighting on the market? Is there one?

[Reefin’ Rumors]

Meishka and Geist

 

[A. grandis]

Bubbie, but she passed last year

That's the only bad thing about dogs. We live too long!!

 

[Dunc]

Meishka and Geist

Look at the feet on that pup! That’s gonna be a big sized dog!

 

[A. grandis]

Meishka and Geist

I saw that avatar before!! Man!! You HAVE to give them some treats for me. LOL!!! I love dogs so much that when I'm walking on the sidewalk with the kids and we see someone with a dog they know we're going to get late. LOL!!

 

[neonreef3d]

I totally agree and actually recommend to many of my LED friends to get the whole surface area of their tanks filled with diodes, if they want to choose LEDs. Another very important think using LEDs is to have a diffuser!! BUT... that is to mimic the T5s. Might as well just get an ATI already for much less money and we don't need to worry bout anything else in the near future (decade, at least!), besides changing bulbs. Many of those friends think that too. It doesn't make any sense to get LEDs in the first place if you want to mimic T5s. Besides, T5s will give a bit of real UV and the light will be much more uniform.
That's my opinion on those type of LEDs.

i think there is an argument to be had and a point to be made with using lighting that often needs to be replaced from wear an tear such as your MH and T5 bulbs vs LEDS and the efficiency they offer. The pros for the LEDS are going to always be against the bulb option for the simple fact that its a newer technology that has caught up with power consumption and the par and lumen they produce. My feelings are that certain manufacturers are marking up the price so high that it is turining people off from spending the money to advance the reef market/industry....

 

[LegendaryCG]

Meishka and Geist

Looks like I’m meeting White Fang

 

[A. grandis]

Look at the feet on that pup! That’s gonna be a big sized dog!

Yup!!! When I was a kid I had a Great Dane. Those have huge feet when they are young. Beautiful!! That was looong time ago.

 

[Reefin’ Rumors]

I saw that avatar before!! Man!! You HAVE to give them some treats for me. LOL!!! I love dogs so much that when I'm walking on the sidewalk with the kids and we see someone with a dog they know we're going to get late. LOL!!

Treats given...they said thanks A. grandis! Have 2 German Shepherd’s but they are outside helping wife cut daffodils and hellebores...

 

[A. grandis]

i think there is an argument to be had and a point to be made with using lighting that often needs to be replaced from wear an tear such as your MH and T5 bulbs vs LEDS and the efficiency they offer. The pros for the LEDS are going to always be against the bulb option for the simple fact that its a newer technology that has caught up. My feelings are that certain manufacturers are markinng up the price so high that it is turining

Yup! They cost way too much for what they are and where they are made!! Yes, everyone have their way to see things. My way to see reef lighting is to achieve the results I want. I prefer to have a smaller tank with halides and T5s then a bigger tank with LEDs or less than optimal halides/T5s too. I strongly believe that lighting needs to be offered so the system get enough of it to replicate what we see in the ocean. See.. when you collect your own stuff and know how they were looking (growth rte, colors, colony structure...) in the ocean, you can choose to keep them with any type of light, or to try to mimic that light from where they were collected. Halides + T5s is the only way for me.
Others are used to or only know what they see in their LFS. So... see... that is what's going on.
In the end it's all fine. I won't change my opinion and others won't either. No problem. Some LED loves get upset when every time someone swap their LEDs for halides and go ballistic about it! they love so much that they post pictures and go crazy!! Huge difference indeed.

There is no definition for healthy corals anymore. If they survive and look good, great! I don't see reefing like that. I'm an old school, I guess.

 

[A. grandis]

Treats given...they said thanks A. grandis! Have 2 German Shepherd’s but they are outside helping wife cut daffodils and hellebores...

Oh man, I love German Shepherds!! Post their pictures later, when you can!! When I was 10 I was expelled from the school because I used to jump the wall and feed the school's German Shepherd my meal. LOL!!!! Gotta love dogs!!

 

[Reefin’ Rumors]

Oh man, I love German Shepherds!! Post their pictures later, when you can!! When I was 10 I was expelled from the school because I used to jump the wall and feed the school's German Shepherd my meal. LOL!!!! Gotta love dogs!!

Will do...probably be tomorrow they are still outside...love my Shepherd’s...

 

[fcmatt]

Eh. All I know is that the people with knowledge and put in the work can make almost any light succeed. The lighting only matters if your Kung fu is good in other aspects as well.

 

[A. grandis]

Eh. All I know is that the people with knowledge and put in the work can make almost any light succeed. The lighting only matters if your Kung fu is good in other aspects as well.

That is true! All other aspects/light need to collaborate to the results.
Each type of fixture has it's limits thought and different results will happen even when all other aspects still being very similar ("the same").
That is also true between LED fixtures, types of T5 bulbs, and types of metal halide systems. The combination of factors will determinate the type of success to achieve different results.
Every type of reef light has it's limits!
The QUALITIES are different and will provide different results.

 

[stephj03]

So I have a friend who’s about to drop 1,400 on a t5 light fixture with 2 Kessil A360X. I feel like that’s soooo much for money for just those 3 things. He says that’s what’s the best in the market.

I’m just wondering if he was lead the wrong way? Are there better lights for the same price or less? Is he making the best choice? I gotta look out for my fellow reefer so I’m wondering what you all think.

Is there something better? What’s your all’s perspective. He mainly has zoas and mushrooms. Some encrusting corals. Oh and a few anemones. For a 125g long tank

It's really only that small sliver of ppl that have a larger tank, and want to grow colonies of non stag horn acropora that really are missing out if they haven't every tried MH/T5.

Your friend doesn't look like that profile. The setup they're looking at is fine for the corals they have.

At this point most LED are about equivalent to each other so the decision is really about which chassis they like asthetically.

The aquatic life fixture is a good call,. It makes up for a lot of the weaknessess inherent to LED.

A better value would be the aquatic life paired with Orphek bars or a ReefBreeder V2+ as mentioned already (assuming aquatic life sells mounts for these).

 

[stephj03]

Keep in mind the lighting forum isn't really a lighting forum. It's an LED forum.

Most of the ppl here have only ever run LED on tanks that wouldn't ever want more than LED. And most of those who have did it a really long time ago.

So take the advice and thought leadership you receive here with that in mind.

And tell your friend Kessil and other puck/point source LED are a bit dated vs panels (ie ReefBreeder) and/or bars (Orphek specifically)

 

[mermaid_life]

Not looking to pick a fight with anyone. I'm not an expert in reefing. I'm just hoping to give another perspective.

In the medical device field and medicine in general, new technology is often compared to "the gold standard" to prove its efficacy. This doesn't mean that the golden standard technology is still the best. They may not even be saying the new one is better. They do this because it's the technology that has the most familiar track record to the most people and allows other professionals something well known to compare to. Usually a few things need to happen for the new technology to be set as the new "gold standard":

- The short track record is exempt because the benefits FAR EXCEEDS the current gold standard (most rare)
- They stop producing the current gold standard product (happens)
- A new generation of adoption forces the change (takes the longest but is the most common)

So in conclusion =), it seems to me that LEDs and metal halides (and its variants) are possibly equally effective with their own pros and cons. One being the golden standard doesn't automatically mean it far exceeds the performance of the other.

 

[A. grandis]

Not looking to pick a fight with anyone. I'm not an expert in reefing. I'm just hoping to give another perspective.

In the medical device field and medicine in general, new technology is often compared to "the gold standard" to prove its efficacy. This doesn't mean that the golden standard technology is still the best. They may not even be saying the new one is better. They do this because it's the technology that has the most familiar track record to the most people and allows other professionals something well known to compare to. Usually a few things need to happen for the new technology to be set as the new "gold standard":

- The short track record is exempt because the benefits FAR EXCEEDS the current gold standard (most rare)
- They stop producing the current gold standard product (happens)
- A new generation of adoption forces the change (takes the longest but is the most common)

So in conclusion =), it seems to me that LEDs and metal halides (and its variants) are possibly equally effective with their own pros and cons. One being the golden standard doesn't automatically mean it far exceeds the performance of the other.

No fights!
No, they are not EQUALLY effective with their pros and cons, simply because of their differences in qualities and limitations (on both sides), therefore producing DIFFERENT results.
Yes, the golden standard (metal halide) literally means "the best, most reliable, or most prestigious thing of its type".

 

[Scubatricky]

No fights!
No, they are not EQUALLY effective with their pros and cons, simply because of their differences in qualities and limitations (on both sides), therefore producing DIFFERENT results.
Yes, the golden standard (metal halide) literally means "the best, most reliable, or most prestigious thing of its type".

But mh isn't the most reliable, or the best, or the most prestigious...as those terms have yet to be defined in relation to lighting.


Define "best" please...

 

[A. grandis]

But mh isn't the most reliable, or the best, or the most prestigious...as those terms have yet to be defined in relation to lighting.


Define "best" please...

Either you are very upset with me and can't understand my words, or you are reading them too fast. Or maybe you really need to convince yourself that LEDs are the best, or something. LOL!
Define your "best" and I'll tell you what lights would have better chances to achieve that goal!
My goal is to reproduce what I see in the ocean and in MY experiences the BEST is METAL HALIDE AND T5s.

 

[Scubatricky]

Either you are very upset with me and can't understand my words, or you are reading them too fast. Or maybe you really need to convince yourself that LEDs are the best, or something. LOL!
Define your "best" and I'll tell you what lights would have better chances to achieve that goal!
My goal is to reproduce what I see in the ocean and in MY experiences the BEST is METAL HALIDE AND T5s.

Ahh, you've changed your tune now... 'your best' is subjective to what you see, and your view of what you see in the ocean.

Have you considered that your view of what you see in the ocean might be wrong?