Big 3 Shootout Alk, Ca, Mg: RedSea, Nyos, Elos, Salifert, API, Hanna, Triton, AWT

[jason2459]

It's finally down to the big three. Alkalinity, Calcium, and Magnesium. This will most definitely be the last big set of comparison testing I'll be doing as it covers all the basics of what I at least periodically test for along with the Nitrate, and PO4 shootouts done previously.

My previous comparison testing has included a alkalinity comparison of API vs. Salifert along with:

A Nitrate Test kit shootout between NYOS, Salifert, RedSea Pro, and API
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/nitrate-test-kit-shoot-out-nyos-salifert-redsea-api.221323/

A PO4 test kit shootout between Nyos, Elos Pro, Salifert, Hanna Checkers x2, and Seachem.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/p...s-pro-salifert-hanna-checkers-seachem.222628/

Me vs. Triton
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hobbyist-vs-triton-testing.221320/

All the Above along with AWT vs. Triton which also includes another follow up Triton test
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/t...ts-api-salifert-elos-redsea-hanna-etc.222909/

This big 3 shoot out was a fairly involved set of comparisons and results were very, lets say, interesting to say the least. I've tried to be completely unbiased and open minded through all these tests but I will be completely honest going into this I had a fairly negative bias against the Red Sea Mg test kit. I did buy an entirely new kit to give it one more chance to prove me wrong as I did like the Red Sea Nitrate kit for it's easier ability to read into the high resolution at very low ranges and seemed accurate enough and comparable vs. other kits. Otherwise I had no high or low hopes for any of the other kits this time.

Everyone has certain parameters that they want to keep and along with every other comparison thread this one is no different. I just try to stay with in the recommended ranges as described by Randy Holmes-Farley here:
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/o...-reef-aquarium-by-randy-holmes-farley.173563/


So, here they all are and the write up for each will follow.

 

[aaron23]

cant wait on the followup

 

[jason2459]

General Parameters

To get started with just a couple basic parameters. Will be able to compare the Nitrates vs. AWT. Salinity and Phosphates vs. AWT and Triton (salinity estimated)


Salinity, pH, Temp via Apex probes:

Salinity also confirmed slightly over 35ppt near 36ppt via vitalsine/veegee refractometer.



I went with the Redsea Nitrate Pro kit as it does a good job at the lower ranges and was easier to read then the Salifert.
Nitrate: not detectable < 0.25

Phosphates:
8ppb phosphorous
0.0245ppm phosphates converted (8ppb * 3.066)/1000

 

[Anirban]

General Parameters

To get started with just a couple basic parameters. Will be able to compare the Nitrates vs. AWT. Salinity and Phosphates vs. AWT and Triton (salinity estimated)


Salinity, pH, Temp via Apex probes:

Salinity also confirmed slightly over 35ppt near 36ppt via vitalsine/veegee refractometer.



I went with the Redsea Nitrate Pro kit as it does a good job at the lower ranges and was easier to read then the Salifert.
Nitrate: not detectable < 0.25

Phosphates:
8ppb phosphorous
0.0245ppm phosphates converted (8ppb * 3.066)/1000

I was wondering in case of Hanna checkers if the low range reads 0 then do we need to go for the ULR reading. Our objective is to reach something between 0-0.02 and the low range hanna can detect that much right.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I was wondering in case of Hanna checkers if the low range reads 0 then do we need to go for the ULR reading. Our objective is to reach something between 0-0.02 and the low range hanna can detect that much right.

The ulr Hanna has a claimed uncertainty of =/- 0.015 ppm. The 713 has +/- 0.04 ppm.

 

[Anirban]

The ulr Hanna has a claimed uncertainty of =/- 0.015 ppm. The 713 has +/- 0.04 ppm.

Hmmmm...that means when 713 reads 0 it can be either +/- 0.04...

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Hmmmm...that means when 713 reads 0 it can be either +/- 0.04...

Well, it can't be below zero.

But yes, 0-0.04 ppm.

 

[jason2459]

Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Test Kit

To start off will be the Red Sea Alk, Ca, Mg kits. Their packaging is always very nicely done and protective. This Reef Foundation Pro includes all three together. So, the price tag of around $50 isn't to bad considering plus you can buy the reagent refills so that's a big plus.

All three syringes already had tips installed and to make sure you don't mix them up are color coded. But I found the tips to not be on all the way. I also found all the syringes very touchy and easy to push in more then a single drip at a time.

Alkalinity
Starting with the alkalinity it was a straight forward titration with a single reagent waiting for the color to change. That change was very easy to detect and very apparent.

The resolution for Alk was a fairly impress 1ml = .05meq/L = 0.146 dKH

and an accuracy of ±0.025 meg/L

My results for this Alk test was 11.76dKH

Calcium
Another standard titration type test where you need to pay attention to the color changes. It was pretty easy and I found the color changes easy to see.

This kit also has a nice resolution of 5ppm and accuracy of ±2.5 ppm (if accurate. )

There are 3 colors you might see and you wouldn't want to stop on purple/violet.

My results for the Calcium test was 470

Don't stop here

Now Stop

Magnesium
So, yeah guess what my results were.... I did this exactly as directions required and have seen the vids etc. You really have to watch the end point color which can come and go at which point you stop. Many other kits you keep going if the color changes back. Not this one. As soon as you see the color change to blue which may come after purple/violet you stop and it will turn back to purple.

I was actually able to capture this transition in picture

STOP here

It will most likely change to purple. Don't keep going

I went through an entire syringe and had to refill it but didn't go much further into it. My final test results for Mg with this kit was...2080!!!


I'm done with Red Sea Mg. Calcium, Alk, and Nitrate seem perfectly fine. I wasn't so impressed with the PO4.

 

[jason2459]

I was wondering in case of Hanna checkers if the low range reads 0 then do we need to go for the ULR reading. Our objective is to reach something between 0-0.02 and the low range hanna can detect that much right.

The 713 is +/- 0.04ppm

736 is +/- 5ppb or converted to +/- 0.015ppm

So, yes the 736 has the ability to read a much higher resolution at the lower ranges and be more accurate. But if you already have the 713 I wouldn't worry about it and it would do just fine. If buying new I would suggest the 736 as they are the same price and slightly better in the lower ranges.

 

[jason2459]

I have more to write. Nyos, Elos, Salifert, API, and Hanna to come. Probably get through a couple of those tonight.

 

[erk]

What I just learned from this is I haven't been testing Ca with the Red Sea kit correctly for a very long time. Well, glad my Ca levels are actually higher than I thought they were.

 

[Lou Ekus]

Would love to see what kind of results you would get with Tropic Marin test kits as well. Especially in relation to the
Ca and Mg.

 

[jason2459]

Elos Aqua Tests Alk, Ca, Mg

These were the most painful tests to perform. Literally. But more of that later. I was really happy with the Elos PO4 Pro kit and if I didn't use the Hanna 736 ULR Checker that would be the kit I would use. So, I expected at least similar results here.

These do not come in a bundled package (Ca,Alk, and Mg) and AFAIK only the Red Sea does. I believe the Hanna Checkers have a bundle you can buy too but it's not quite the same and fairly expensive up front cost. Cost wise these were cheaper then the PO4 Pro kit with the Alkalinity kit being sub-$20 and the Ca and Mg kit being around $25-30. Which is slight more then what Salifert kits are individually and more then what Red Sea reagent refills cost.

All the Elos kits definitely want to make sure you hit the right end point. Once you hit what you think you see as the end point you're supposed to cap the vial and wait 30 seconds to see if the color remains the same. If it does then you're done. If it reverts back then keep going.

The visual picture instructions can be kind of confusing for what I just described. Make sure to read the written instructions for better clarification on what the images are showing you. Here's an example of the simplest test for Alk. Ca and Mg have the same last two steps to make sure the end point color is truly reached.

Alkalinity
Another very basic and easy kit to perform. Just like red sea and many others. Add some water to a vial, drop in some reagent and keep gently shaking/swirling to get it mixed in. Keep going until you hit that end point color. Once I hit that point I capped the vial with the cap it comes with and waited to see. I found the cap to this vial to be fairly loose.

The resolution is a simple .5dkh per drop. No charts needed if you remember to just count the number of drops until you hit your end point and half what you counted and you have your results in dkh. Easy enough.

My results here were 24 drops or 12dKH

Calcium
Keep in mind this marketing bullet point of Elos for all their kits
"Safe reagents": reagents and testing procedures are based on Low Risk Reagents. None of our test kits are based on Toxic Reagents.

I like how the SAFE REAGENTS are in quotes....

I like that this kit provides a simple high resolution and low resolution capabilities. If you just care to get with in 50ppm of what your calcium level is at you can do the high resolution. But you can choose to narrow down to a much higher resolution at 10ppm.

You basically use the low resolution method but stop short of where you think or know the end point to be. Say you know your calcium levels are over 450 but under 500. Just put in enough drops of the low resolution reagent to get to 450 which would be 9 drops (1 drop = 50ppm). Then move on to the high resolution reagent where 1 drop = 10ppm. Pretty slick and makes getting to the end point pretty quick. Drop in 9, swirl it around a bit, then start doing one drop at a time swirling between each drop.

There's two sides to their instruction slick for this (again the visual aid instructions can be kind of confusing for some until you do it at least once)

Back to those "SAFE REAGENTS". Well, I followed all instructions for all the kits to the T. So, once I hit what I saw as an end point color I tried capping it. Unlike the Alk kit cap the slid right in loosely the cap that came with the calcium kit was extremely tight in fact not just tight but too big.

This resulted in the vial breaking and getting the reagents all over my hands. Which I instantly felt that wonderful soapy feeling of the fatty acids in my skin melting away. Wonderful. At least they were safe enough to not do major damage other then irritation. Rinsed well for a while (10+ minutes) and even after that once my hands dried felt prickly.

After that I proceeded to do the test again and used the cap from the Alk kit this time which was more on the small side and fell right into place easily. I ended up getting the same results as the first time.


This kits calcium results were: 470

 

[jason2459]

Elos Continued
Magnesium
Least favorite of the kits from Elos I've used so far (besides getting burned by the Calcium reagents...). Not because of the results which seem good enough but just personally I didn't like it's 2 phase approach. Not a big deal and the kit seemed accurate enough.

With this kit you definitely want to read the instructions. You have two phases. You keep track of the number of drops from phase one to get to the end point color. Then do phase 2 (this kit should come with 2 vials for this) and count how many drops to get to it's end point. Then subtract the number you got from phase 2 from the number you got from phase 1. Then that number = your magnesium levels. The cap/stopper for this kit was tight but fit just right.

I was actually surprised that the Apex has this programmed into fusion for Elos. If you have an apex all these kits I've tested are available as a kit type in Apex Fusion. For the Elos Mg selection it asks how many drops for phase 1 and how many for phase 2 and it spits out your results.

And as you can see my Results were 1350

Phase (Fase) 1

Phase 2 just got the end point

So, overall all three seem fine but for the cost I'd probably pick different kits. They need to QC those vials and stoppers much better.

 

[jason2459]

What I just learned from this is I haven't been testing Ca with the Red Sea kit correctly for a very long time. Well, glad my Ca levels are actually higher than I thought they were.

That's awesome. I've learned a lot doing these and I hope others can as well. What were your Ca readings? I assume you were stopping at purple? I would be interested in what they are once you hit blue?

 

[jason2459]

Would love to see what kind of results you would get with Tropic Marin test kits as well. Especially in relation to the
Ca and Mg.

I'm comparison testing burnt out. lol I'm looking towards saltmix testing next. Already have a thread started on it and will follow up with it later. Will take a testing break for a bit after this.

I'm sure the Tropic Marin kits are just fine. Besides the Red Sea Mg kit I haven't experienced any others that aren't good enough for our needs. Most issues are either testing procedure related or something wrong with the reagents.

 

[jason2459]

I'll have to finish writing up the Nyos, Salifert, API, and Hanna along with getting the numbers together for easy comparisons tomorrow.

 

[Tacticalbaton]

Nice job keep it up, will be following.............

 

[mila sheehan]

how much are those special kits

 

[jason2459]

how much are those special kits

They vary and I'm including the rough price you might find them at as different sites may have slightly different prices or have some deals going on. Like Bulk Reef Supply just had a 1 day special on Salifert Ca kit yesterday.