Birds nest Bleaching From Bottom

george9

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
292
Reaction score
212
Location
Miami
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Ugh yes, yet another birds nest bleaching post…lol

Long story short, my nitrates have been bottomed out for about a month and caused a lot of my corals to lose significant color. I maintain my alk between 9-10 so low nutrients + a higher alk was starving my corals I believe. The last week i’ve been feeding more and lightly dosing aminos to bring up my nitrates and I have them at 10PPM now which was higher than I anticipated. I did this while I significantly reduced chaeto in my fuge, which in hindsight was probably too much to do at once. All of my corals except my birds nest frag have responded well and have significantly colored up. All of the sudden I notice my birds nest is now bleaching from the bottom up, most likely unhappy with the higher nitrates it wasn’t used to. I’ve made a couple changes this week but they should only increase stability - I added a temp controller and fans and an ATO to maintain salinity.

Calcium: 440
mag: 1260
alk: 9.5
nitrate: 10
phosphate: .06
salinity: 1.025

Im reluctant to do a bunch of water changes to quickly lower nitrates as that is probably just as stressful so I am kinda stuck. I’ve increased the photoperiod in my fuge to slowly bring nitrates down over this week. Should I cut the dead area off and re-frag it or is this guy likely a goner?

4B095836-4755-42C4-80C9-5C1383C96867.jpeg
 

Blake423

Community Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
95
Reaction score
31
Location
Australia
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
How can we know they are bleaching from the bottom or the bottom dye just because don't get any light?
 

JaaxReef

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
999
Reaction score
695
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I don’t think your nutrients have much to do with it.

Looks like it is almost completely shaded underneath. I’ve found if I want to keep Birdsnest corals I need supplemental strip lighting like the Quantas, Vitamini, Orpheks, or T5s. They tend to do much better and take much longer to start stripping from the bottom from lack of light. You could also try remounting it at an angle so it gets light at least on one side of the base.
 

DE FISH

Valuable Member
View Badges
Joined
Jan 19, 2021
Messages
1,070
Reaction score
2,325
Location
UK
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Birdnests are very temperamental any other sps no issues but birdnest for some reason I struggle with
 

JaaxReef

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
999
Reaction score
695
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I’ll speak from my experience growing them successfully from single branch frags… more light spread to cover the base and lots of flow. Once they get growing it’s less of a problem.

3DE14ACD-C8EF-4B4C-8F78-2371313973CE.jpeg E6B726DA-BE40-4789-987E-D01D8D4ADF64.jpeg
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
90,820
Reaction score
200,052
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
May be shading from light but also these coral are very forgiving. From looks of pic, may be STN. Stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens
Many things can cause STN. Some possible triggers of infection are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays
 

JaaxReef

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
999
Reaction score
695
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
May be shading from light but also these coral are very forgiving. From looks of pic, may be STN. Stressors such as increased temperature either modify the structure of the coral microbial symbiotic community or trigger the production of virulence factors. Temperature stress can increase chances of coral disease development in several ways by creating stress in the coral zooxanthellae and decreasing its resistance to infection, increasing growth and virulence of opportunistic coral pathogens
Many things can cause STN. Some possible triggers of infection are:
- Alkalinity spike
- Temperature spike
- Salinity spike
- Low dissolved oxygen
- Poor water quality related with phosphate levels up to 5 ppm
- Change in water flow
- Additions of sand
- Changes in brand of salt
- Bad test kits giving faulty results
- Levels of minor elements such as Iodine, Potassium, Strontium
- Light intensity
- - Changes in water flow
- Addition of new corals
- - Pesticides
- Airborne Contaminants or sprays
Agreed on all points here.

Birdsnests can be temperamental and when they do turn south, it can go badly fast.
 
OP
OP
george9

george9

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
292
Reaction score
212
Location
Miami
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Interesting. So when I bought it, they told me it was kept in no more than 200 par. I have it at about 180 right now, but maybe the way it is on the rock, the base is too shaded. I did end up cutting the white parts off and re-glued it so the bases get more light. We’ll see if this continues to turn white. My main three params have been rock solid (calc, mag and alk), the only change would be the nitrates.

If it is STN, I at least removed the dying areas to stop it from spreading and if not, maybe the orientation it is glued in will allow the bases to get more light. It’s frustrating because my other SPS really perked up with increased nutrients, except this guy!



37D4E238-D993-4E66-834B-E2BBF274157E.jpeg
 

JaaxReef

Well-Known Member
View Badges
Joined
Jul 13, 2017
Messages
999
Reaction score
695
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Interesting. So when I bought it, they told me it was kept in no more than 200 par. I have it at about 180 right now, but maybe the way it is on the rock, the base is too shaded. I did end up cutting the white parts off and re-glued it so the bases get more light. We’ll see if this continues to turn white
Time will tell. Hopefully if it was an STN infection OR lack of light at the base you solved for it by removing the recessed tissue and remounting it.

180 par should be plenty in my experience.
 

vetteguy53081

Well known Member and monster tank lover
View Badges
Joined
Aug 11, 2013
Messages
90,820
Reaction score
200,052
Location
Wisconsin -
Rating - 100%
13   0   0
Interesting. So when I bought it, they told me it was kept in no more than 200 par. I have it at about 180 right now, but maybe the way it is on the rock, the base is too shaded. I did end up cutting the white parts off and re-glued it so the bases get more light. We’ll see if this continues to turn white

37D4E238-D993-4E66-834B-E2BBF274157E.jpeg
They do best in medium light and water flow.
Best ranges are :
Temp 77-79
ph 8.1-8.3
salinity 1.025
nitrate < .10
phos < .04
Ammonia < .03
mG 1300
Alk 8-11
CA 400- 440
 
OP
OP
george9

george9

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
292
Reaction score
212
Location
Miami
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Looks like it is already continuing unfortunately

It is sitting a couple inches below my Nero 3, could be too much flow? Im reluctant to move it when it’s already in a state of distress
 

Attachments

  • D98A5655-963F-477F-A166-397ECA52F680.jpeg
    D98A5655-963F-477F-A166-397ECA52F680.jpeg
    187.9 KB · Views: 41

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
4,974
Reaction score
5,004
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Your tank is only a couple 4 months old and those purple polyp type b.n's are finicky when you can grow most montipora 's id jump to those next. I have trouble with those too, but just adding the ato, temp controller and other various things mentioned id say there are some underlying things going on plus the age of the tank.

20220425_153357.jpg 20220425_153511.jpg
 

thatmanMIKEson

Reefing ain't easy$
View Badges
Joined
Jan 10, 2021
Messages
4,974
Reaction score
5,004
Location
florida
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I dont know my par but its way over 200, they can be grown in low or high light but not in instability, best to pump up the system with corals that grow first to get the system running and drinking alk/cal , then add things you want when stability comes
 

Attachments

  • 20220425_153614.jpg
    20220425_153614.jpg
    228.6 KB · Views: 42

thepotoo

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Aug 27, 2019
Messages
115
Reaction score
150
Location
Vermont
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I see two things here:
* No PE/lack of growth tips. This issue has been going on for longer than your nitrate spike. The coral was probably stressed due to low nutrients.
* When you fragged it, you should have moved the frags to different areas of light/flow to maximize the chances of one piece surviving.

There's no way that a frag that size is shading itself out. Birdsnests don't start shading their bases until they are 5-6" or so in my experience.

Always look for good growth tips on birdsnests - you want them to be nice and pointy and lighter in color than the rest of the coral. If you don't see a growth tip, you need to look at changes in light/flow/water chemistry. Birdsnests are extremely forgiving (compared to acros) but any sudden changes will kill them. I have birdsnests growing in everything from 100 PAR to 450 (although it does grow best at around 150-200 PAR) and everything from almost no flow to very high flow. Just avoid pointing a powerhead directly at them, as with all corals, direct flow stops/slows their growth.

Not the greatest picture, but this is about 4 years of growth from a 1" frag:
1650983091148.png
 
OP
OP
george9

george9

Active Member
View Badges
Joined
Nov 16, 2021
Messages
292
Reaction score
212
Location
Miami
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
I dont know my par but its way over 200, they can be grown in low or high light but not in instability, best to pump up the system with corals that grow first to get the system running and drinking alk/cal , then add things you want when stability comes
Yeah it sounds like stability was my issue in this case increasing nitrates way too fast. I have a couple montis that are growing like weeds at the moment
I see two things here:
* No PE/lack of growth tips. This issue has been going on for longer than your nitrate spike. The coral was probably stressed due to low nutrients.
* When you fragged it, you should have moved the frags to different areas of light/flow to maximize the chances of one piece surviving.

There's no way that a frag that size is shading itself out. Birdsnests don't start shading their bases until they are 5-6" or so in my experience.

Always look for good growth tips on birdsnests - you want them to be nice and pointy and lighter in color than the rest of the coral. If you don't see a growth tip, you need to look at changes in light/flow/water chemistry. Birdsnests are extremely forgiving (compared to acros) but any sudden changes will kill them. I have birdsnests growing in everything from 100 PAR to 450 (although it does grow best at around 150-200 PAR) and everything from almost no flow to very high flow. Just avoid pointing a powerhead directly at them, as with all corals, direct flow stops/slows their growth.

Not the greatest picture, but this is about 4 years of growth from a 1" frag:
1650983091148.png
Beautiful!!!

Now that I am looking back at photos, when I first received the frag on March 24, it may have already been showing very slight signs of STN at the very lower part of the base so maybe it was doomed from the start. Anyways, I am taking this as a learning lesson to take things extremely slow. Definitely will not be adding more SPS to the tank for a while. The tank’s about 6 months old and was pretty stable until I decided to mess with the nutrients, I think I just increased nitrates way too fast. I’ll give the tank some more time to mature and get my nitrates balanced before I dive deeper into the world of SPS.

05B1C002-E3D2-4F41-B365-DF10629059D4.jpeg
 

A worm with high fashion and practical utility: Have you ever kept feather dusters in your reef aquarium?

  • I currently have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 73 37.8%
  • Not currently, but I have had feather dusters in my tank in the past.

    Votes: 66 34.2%
  • I have not had feather dusters, but I hope to in the future.

    Votes: 25 13.0%
  • I have no plans to have feather dusters in my tank.

    Votes: 28 14.5%
  • Other.

    Votes: 1 0.5%
Back
Top