Bolus dosing

[djf91]

Did that happen within an hour of detritus removal (in which case it may be they wanted to eat stirred up detritus) or something that built over many days as something released or bound by detritus was no longer happening?

It seems to last for about a week. Then I wait another week and siphon the sand ( a huge task on a 500 gallon display). So I’m siphoning the sand every 2 weeks. I’ve also been increasing my detritus removal in other parts of my system (frag tank, sumps).

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It seems to last for about a week. Then I wait another week and siphon the sand ( a huge task on a 500 gallon display). So I’m siphoning the sand every 2 weeks. I’ve also been increasing my detritus removal in other parts of my system (frag tank, sumps).

But the change in the corals is rapid on removal, or takes time?

 

[djf91]

I’d say there are different kinds of what I call “detritus”. Larger particulate that rests of top of rockwork, finer detritus that is blown from holes in rockwork, brown sludge that builds in the sand bed, snail poop in the frag tank that seems to be dry and maybe inert.

 

[djf91]

But the change in the corals is rapid on removal, or takes time?

I would say the following day when lights come on.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I would say the following day when lights come on.

Ok. I have no idea how that might be impacted by the presence of calcium carbonate particulates elsewhere in the tank, if any are part of the detritus. Folks dosing such particles often claim a benefit of doing so.

 

[twentyleagues]

Siphoning the sand bed and any accumulation at the bottom of my sumps. Also blowing the rockwork with a power head and filter socks

So my point is you are siphoning and removing and replacing water. So you dont think that the water change is possibly causing that effect? Everytime I do a water change all my corals look "happier" the next day and for a few days after. I sometimes can see new growth in that time also. I am guessing on my end its some trace element that I dont test for getting replenished. My corals look good normally but better when I change water which isnt very often. I also dont typically touch the detritus that is all in my sump. I have enough flow in the tank to send it to the sump there is no accumulation in the tank. I feel having detritus/mulm is an important part of the biome.

 

[Dan Reef]

Is there a way we can test detritus build up with different alk additives?

 

[areefer01]

No hostility intended. I've just watched Mike Paletta praising the wonders of Bolus on reducing detritus, then he mentions he's also put a couple of Abyzz cannons on his his tank, lol.

Well he tinkers and has run into issues because of it. On the other hand not directed at you but fellow hobbyist have dropped names who have been using or have recently switched to bolus and suggesting we should be impressed. I just do not see how or why it matters but maybe I'm not being a good groupie or cult member.

Ah ha maybe it is a cult of personality. Not the Norwegian synth pop band who brought Take On Me to fame. Are they Norwegian? I don't know.

Alex, I'll take pop music for $200.

Hope your day is well.

 

[djf91]

So my point is you are siphoning and removing and replacing water. So you dont think that the water change is possibly causing that effect? Everytime I do a water change all my corals look "happier" the next day and for a few days after. I sometimes can see new growth in that time also. I am guessing on my end its some trace element that I dont test for getting replenished. My corals look good normally but better when I change water which isnt very often. I also dont typically touch the detritus that is all in my sump. I have enough flow in the tank to send it to the sump there is no accumulation in the tank. I feel having detritus/mulm is an important part of the biome.

I think it could be water change giving the effect. But I also notice it when I siphon through a filter sock and return the water back to the tank. Steve Weast, John Coppolino, and many other greats in the hobby have said “just say no to detritus”.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Is there a way we can test detritus build up with different alk additives?

I’m sure one could set up a collection area in some quiet part of the system and let solids settle there, and then measure what was collected after using different additives, but of all the things to test, this would be far down my list since I cannot see any reason it is important enough to care about, even in the event that one gets more particulate calcium carbonate with higher pH additives.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I think it could be water change giving the effect. But I also notice it when I siphon through a filter sock and return the water back to the tank. Steve Weast, John Coppolino, and many other greats in the hobby have said “just say no to detritus”.

I’m not going to put words in other peoples mouths, but I have a hard time believing that any concerns about detritus in general (except perhaps aesthetics) relates to calcium carbonate.

 

[djf91]

I’m not going to put words in other peoples mouths, but I have a hard time believing that any concerns about detritus in general (except perhaps aesthetics) relates to calcium carbonate.

Organics bind to calcium carbonate right? Trace elements too? So if these were binding and then sinking to the substrate maybe this could be the issue?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Organics bind to calcium carbonate right? Trace elements too? So if these were binding and then sinking to the substrate maybe this could be the issue?

It will happen. That’s why folks dose coral snow. Removing detritus after the fact seems unlikely to change anything substantial about the water remaining.

If the question is whether calcium carbonate particles are a net negative or positive, I think that is complicated question, but most folks dosing it think the water looks clearer and they continue to use it.

 

[twentyleagues]

I think it could be water change giving the effect. But I also notice it when I siphon through a filter sock and return the water back to the tank. Steve Weast, John Coppolino, and many other greats in the hobby have said “just say no to detritus”.

Maybe when you do it through a filter sock particles smaller than the sock can catch get put back into suspension eliciting a feed response from corals?

 

[djf91]

Maybe when you do it through a filter sock particles smaller than the sock can catch get put back into suspension eliciting a feed response from corals?

There’s a lot of nasty sludge that is pulled out. That is what is causing the improved health. I also notice a drop in my phosphates and nitrates after this. I’m sure DOCs too.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

There’s a lot of nasty sludge that is pulled out. That is what is causing the improved health. I also notice a drop in my phosphates and nitrates after this. I’m sure DOCs too.

You seem convinced you know what the explanation is, but I’d argue that you are proposing a hypothesis that lacks evidence.

Do you otherwise have excessive nitrate and phosphate? Do you measure DOC?

I’d argue that precipitated calcium carbonate particles will lower DOC and phosphate, not raise them.

When do you measure these in relation to removing detritus that you attribute a drop to removing it?

 

[lombeard]

The corals are likely happy about the food in the water column after siphoning the sand and not the cleaner sand.

 

[djf91]

You seem convinced you know what the explanation is, but I’d argue that you are proposing a hypothesis that lacks evidence.

Do you otherwise have excessive nitrate and phosphate? Do you measure DOC?

I’d argue that precipitated calcium carbonate particles will lower DOC and phosphate, not raise them.

When do you measure these in relation to removing detritus that you attribute a drop to removing it?

I didn’t come here to argue with you about this. I more was curious from those bolus dosing if they see less detritus accumulation. From what I’ve noticed in my system, less detritus accumulation = a healthier ecosystem for the coral I’m trying to keep. This is why I’m interested. You act like I’m crazy for wanting less detritus, when people have been following this method for decades.

 

[djf91]

The corals are likely happy about the food in the water column after siphoning the sand and not the cleaner sand.

I disagree. Waste accumulation in the sand bed can be a real issue for more sensitive stony corals. I’ve noticed this, as have many others.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

I didn’t come here to argue with you about this. I more was curious from those bolus dosing if they see less detritus accumulation. From what I’ve noticed in my system, less detritus accumulation = a healthier ecosystem for the coral I’m trying to keep. This is why I’m interested. You act like I’m crazy for wanting less detritus, when people have been following this method for decades.

Not arguing. What Randy is point out is what plagues most hobbyists when presented with an effect and coming to a conclusion based on bias assumptions.

It's unrealistic for most of us to set up conditions to prove our hypothesis. But at the same time we shouldn't jump to certain conclusions just because the dots seem to connect. It's the concept of understanding a process enough to know there can be other reasons for what's observed.