Bolus dosing

[ReneReef]

I truly have no dog in this fight I am just stuck at home with influenza A and happened to stumble across this “balling light”. At no point do they ever recommend doing “double the light intensity”. They actually recommend having the peak on the initial “lights on” and you ramp down from there. No different than having a peak period in the middle of the day for 3-6 hours, instead it’s at the beginning.

Josh from WWC actually runs his lighting schedule in this fashion.

I hope you get well soon.

To clarify. They actually recommend to go to 120% of your normal peak setting at once, right after dosing and keep it there for several hours and then ramp down to your previous 100% and finish the schedule as you like. That is quite the incrase in light compared to a gradual ramp up over several hours.

They say in their videos that this is an essential part of the bolus method. Bolus uses balling light products but applies them differently than the balling light method.

I gave my example to show that one could market water as an pH additive if you include an advice to increase light intensity. I even added some

Yes , I exaggerated. But to a lesser extent that is exactly what is happening here. The part of the pH increase caused by the lighting increase is wrongly attributed to the bolus dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

No different than having a peak period in the middle of the day for 3-6 hours, instead it’s at the beginning.

But if the claim is the bicarbonate dosing is the "cause" of the pH rise, then it is certainly different to also ramp up light at that time, distorting what part of the pH boost is from the alk bolus boost effect and what is photosynthesis.

Again, this gets at the root of the main problem I have with FM, and is the great majority of this now super long thread. It has nothing to do with their method being good, bad, or otherwise, it has to do with what I consider to be their faulty explanations of their observations.

Folks should distinguish those two entirely different issues. When they do not, we end up in the ridiculous situation of one camp saying the explanations are bogus, and the other saying the method works so how can one criticize it?

 

[Garf]

Made a batch of Alk today using 90C water. The gas release was quite something. Resultant pH appeared to be 8.9ish.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Made a batch of Alk today using 90C water. The gas release was quite something. Resultant pH appeared to be 8.9ish.

Let’s call this the Golus method. We make up the additive the way you did, dose it as a bolus, and then attribute the pH boost to the formation of ytterbium bicarbonate crystals that form during the heating. You cannot see them, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

 

[rishma]

the ridiculous situation of one camp saying the explanations are bogus, and the other saying the method works so how can one criticize it?

you just summarized 101 pages of this thread.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Let’s call this the Golus method. We make up the additive the way you did, dose it as a bolus, and then attribute the pH boost to the formation of ytterbium bicarbonate crystals that form during the heating. You cannot see them, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

ytterbium - Randy, did you just take this into the quantum realm? So maybe the proof in string theory resides somewhere in bolus dosing. We have the ytterbium on the quantum side and carbonate on the Einsteinian side... Amazing!

 

[Garf]

Let’s call this the Golus method. We make up the additive the way you did, dose it as a bolus, and then attribute the pH boost to the formation of ytterbium bicarbonate crystals that form during the heating. You cannot see them, but the proof is in the pudding, as they say.

I expect without the blast of light immediately after dosing, a steady decline in the GOLUS effect, lol.

 

[OscarHaglund]

Latest episode of beyond the reef just dropped with mike paletta as guest.
He is also doing bolus and said he doses 600ml alk per day in his 600 gal system and reported seeing smaller alk swings with bolus 7.7 to 8.2 instead of a 1dkh+ swing.
So it turns out that 600ml bicarbonate in 600 galons is 0.7 dkh. Exactly the reported alk swing!
How this coincides with raised ph and better growth is beyond me.

Adam from frag garage also said we are “stuck in the past” and that there are “new methods with new science “. Apparently this new science doesn’t care much about proof or prior plausibility.

 

[Oldreefer44]

Interesting. I dose 155ml in a 180 that doesn't have a refugium and is not nearly as heavily stocked as his. So seems about right. Mine swings between 7.9 and 8.3.

 

[BeanAnimal]

So it turns out that 600ml bicarbonate in 600 galons is 0.7 dkh. Exactly the reported alk swing!

Without knowing the actual concentration of the solution, no assumptions can be made.

 

[OscarHaglund]

Without knowing the actual concentration of the solution, no assumptions can be made.

He is dosing the FM solution, which i believed was shown as bicarb, presumably equivalent to randys#2

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

Back to the way Fauna bicarb behaves, I have this old graph as I don't run my GHL to test 24 times per day usually and it takes 3 hours for the alk level to peak, at this time I'd have been dosing roughly 2.9dkh of alk according to Fauna's stated potency and saw no more than a 0.6dkh rise. From memory it was 165ml in 275ltrs

All solution was fully dissolved so the full 500g was in solution on a 5.5ltr batch.

I also tested pH of my alk solution in my container last night and it was 8.5 so the carbonate conversion isn't happening here for me with just warm water I don't think.

 

[twentyleagues]

Back to the way Fauna bicarb behaves, I have this old graph as I don't run my GHL to test 24 times per day usually and it takes 3 hours for the alk level to peak, at this time I'd have been dosing roughly 2.9dkh of alk according to Fauna's stated potency and saw no more than a 0.6dkh rise. From memory it was 165ml in 275ltrs

All solution was fully dissolved so the full 500g was in solution on a 5.5ltr batch.

I also tested pH of my alk solution in my container last night and it was 8.5 so the carbonate conversion isn't happening here for me with just warm water I don't think.

So I am not trying to argue or call out your post I am legit trying to understand what you posted here with this graph. You were talking about alk so this is the graph of your alk? or is it ph? If its alk I see the dose on the 27th ish of july and pretty much a full day later you see the full potential of that .6 dkh add? Then you dont dose again until the 31st? Do the dates at the bottom not matter? Is this actually a 7 day graph? Most of the time I see people post these graph pics and my brain just says no. Its usually something like this where they are talking about a small time sample but the graph shows as days. Is this something I would understand if I had one of these auto-testers/monitors. I am pretty sure I know how to read graphs maybe I have forgotten. If I am just being dumb you can feel free to point it out to me its ok.

 

[BeanAnimal]

He is dosing the FM solution, which i believed was shown as bicarb, presumably equivalent to randys#2

But you don't know the actual concentration. Is it saturated?

 

[Garf]

But you don't know the actual concentration. Is it saturated?

I think someone needs to do some drying experiments, otherwise it looks like a bit of a crap shoot;

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/286769011_Drying_of_Sodium_Bicarbonate_with_Microwave_Energy

Edit - tried this on my no name, bog standard, nothing special bicarb, moisture was negligible. 800watt, 5 mins.

 

[Pod_01]

But you don't know the actual concentration. Is it saturated?

Randy recipe #2 (quick calculation) 362grams per 5.5 L.

FM Balling Light is 500grams per 5.5L (approximately).
I could never get this to dissolve hence why I used boiling RODI water.

Now in retrospect, I guess BOLUS didn’t work for me because obviously I dissolved the little crystals and by using soda ash I broke the buffer :zany-face:.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Back to the way Fauna bicarb behaves, I have this old graph as I don't run my GHL to test 24 times per day usually and it takes 3 hours for the alk level to peak, at this time I'd have been dosing roughly 2.9dkh of alk according to Fauna's stated potency and saw no more than a 0.6dkh rise. From memory it was 165ml in 275ltrs

All solution was fully dissolved so the full 500g was in solution on a 5.5ltr batch.

I also tested pH of my alk solution in my container last night and it was 8.5 so the carbonate conversion isn't happening here for me with just warm water I don't think.

Just expanding on some previous comments, the graph seems to show a data point every 6 h. Is that correct? So how can you say the alk rise takes 3 h, as opposed to 5 min or 5 h?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Actually that graph is every 12 hours.

 

[twentyleagues]

Actually that graph is every 12 hours.

Thats what I thought originally also.

 

[Welsh Reefer.]

Just expanding on some previous comments, the graph seems to show a data point every 6 h. Is that correct? So how can you say the alk rise takes 3 h, as opposed to 5 min or 5 h?

Totally my bad, wrong graph posted (doh) will add correct one shortly. Sorry for the confusion folks but this looks just like a daily graph trend too and I'd just woke up!

Edit: here's a graph from around that time over 24hrs

Regardless of potency claims, I see nowhere near the amount dosed ever show up even if you base it on half of what Fauna state

Dose is at 9am