Can’t keep torches alive!!!

[Jaybeastin]

My tank is 1.5 years old . I can’t keep ANY torch coral alive! My parameters are rock stable. It’s so frustrating! I can keep hammer corals just fine and even some Acros sticks. Anyone have an idea on the cause? Also this type of frogspawn I can’t keep alive

Dosing Kalkwasser & Brightwell Mag

Redsea blue bucket
Parameters
Salinity 1.025
ALK 8.0-8.3 (Hanna checker)
Cal 450 (salifert)
Mag 1400 (Redsea)
Pho .10 (Hanna checker)
Nitrate 10-20 (salifert)
Ph 8-8.2

 

[Timfish]

I'd suggest getting with whoever you are getting your euphyllia from and see if there are f=differences in light intensity and spectrum. Aquabiomics has an article on treating euphyllia for brown jelly you might look at it.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/e...rown-jelly-disease.782438/page-2#post-8326015

Just FYI, there;s a whole lot more going on in our reefs systems than just a basic set of parameters. Here's some links you might find informative:

"Coral Reefs in the Microbial Seas" This video compliments Rohwer's book of the same title (Paper back is ~$20, Kindle is ~$10), both deal with the conflicting roles of the different types of DOC in reef ecosystems. While there is overlap bewteen his book and the video both have information not covered by the other and together give a broader view of the complex relationships found in reef ecosystems


Changing Seas - Mysterious Microbes


Microbial view of Coral Decline


Nitrogen cycling in hte coral holobiont


BActeria and Sponges


Maintenance of Coral Reef Health (refferences at the end)


Optical Feedback Loop in Colorful Coral Bleaching


DNA Sequencing and the Reef Tank Microbiome


Richard Ross What's up with phosphate"

 

[Lavey29]

Numbers seem good so I would focus on flow and lights in that order.

 

[ReefDreamz]

I have the same problem. I really love torches and have 11 of them currently. 3 are doing really poorly with no flesh band and exposed septa or barely a flesh band just past the septa. I've probably bought another 5 that have since died. My tank is 13 months old and all my other corals including hammers, frogspawn, acans, fungias, favias, blastos, lots of acros, montis, mushrooms, zoas or others are thriving. Only my torches are doing poorly.

On mine it looks like the flesh bands are disintegrating and look powdery. I can see bone white skeleton all around the base of the polyp as well as the powdery white remains of the flesh. The tentacles will begin to shorten around the edge closest to the septa. This will continue until the flesh recedes all the way over the septa and then theres no flesh and only a polyp. They continue to go downhill from there until the head just dies or breaks out in brown jelly. This whole process takes months though, and I usually don't let it get that far and cut my losses and toss the coral.

I too really keep a good eye on my params with a Trident and I do Reef Moonshiners and do monthly ICPs. I've never had any major alk swings that I know of. My current params are below. I've tried the KFC dip and I even tried the in tank cipro treatment that Eli Meyer from Aquabiomics popularized. I think the cipro and KFC dips helped but it's hard to say for sure as it keeps happening.

The only things I'm adding to my tank are kalkwasser, Brightwell alk, Ca and Mg, Reef Moonshiner elements, live phyto (daily), microbacter7 (very rarely), Fauna Bacto Blend (once weekly), LRS reef frenzy, PE mysis, Reef Nutrition oyster feast and R.O.E., and TDO pellets.

I really want to get this figured out as I love torches and it's really the only issue I'm having with my tank keeping me between being happy and unhappy with my reef.

Current params:
Salinity: 34.8
pH: 8.37-8.5
Alk: 8.3-8.7
Ca: 435-440
Mg: 1430
PO4: 0.11
NO3: 9.7

 

[Lavey29]

My torches sit mid tank in 250 par and get low to moderate flow. I only run my MP40s at 26% during the day and 20% overnight. Since going to this range my torches have tripled or quadruple in size.

So, if you checked for pests like euphyllia eating flatworms and your numbers are stable then flow would be the next concern followed by lights.

 

[Jaybeastin]

Numbers seem good so I would focus on flow and lights in that order.

I tried them both :( I tried placing them in top mid and now bottom with medium to light flow. No pest at all :( I tried lighting also from 45 to 65% intensity . Still the same smh

 

[Jaybeastin]

I have the same problem. I really love torches and have 11 of them currently. 3 are doing really poorly with no flesh band and exposed septa or barely a flesh band just past the septa. I've probably bought another 5 that have since died. My tank is 13 months old and all my other corals including hammers, frogspawn, acans, fungias, favias, blastos, lots of acros, montis, mushrooms, zoas or others are thriving. Only my torches are doing poorly.

On mine it looks like the flesh bands are disintegrating and look powdery. I can see bone white skeleton all around the base of the polyp as well as the powdery white remains of the flesh. The tentacles will begin to shorten around the edge closest to the septa. This will continue until the flesh recedes all the way over the septa and then theres no flesh and only a polyp. They continue to go downhill from there until the head just dies or breaks out in brown jelly. This whole process takes months though, and I usually don't let it get that far and cut my losses and toss the coral.

I too really keep a good eye on my params with a Trident and I do Reef Moonshiners and do monthly ICPs. I've never had any major alk swings that I know of. My current params are below. I've tried the KFC dip and I even tried the in tank cipro treatment that Eli Meyer from Aquabiomics popularized. I think the cipro and KFC dips helped but it's hard to say for sure as it keeps happening.

The only things I'm adding to my tank are kalkwasser, Brightwell alk, Ca and Mg, Reef Moonshiner elements, live phyto (daily), microbacter7 (very rarely), Fauna Bacto Blend (once weekly), LRS reef frenzy, PE mysis, Reef Nutrition oyster feast and R.O.E., and TDO pellets.

I really want to get this figured out as I love torches and it's really the only issue I'm having with my tank keeping me between being happy and unhappy with my reef.

Current params:
Salinity: 34.8
pH: 8.37-8.5
Alk: 8.3-8.7
Ca: 435-440
Mg: 1430
PO4: 0.11
NO3: 9.7

I have a friend that have has a bunch of torches with unstable parameters that are thriving . This is not fair at all

 

[Lavey29]

I tried them both :( I tried placing them in top mid and now bottom with medium to light flow. No pest at all :( I tried lighting also from 45 to 65% intensity . Still the same smh

What lights are you using and what powerheads?

 

[Jaybeastin]

What lights are you using and what powerheads?

Xr15 pro gen 5 and Nero 5

 

[Lavey29]

I tried them both :( I tried placing them in top mid and now bottom with medium to light flow. No pest at all :( I tried lighting also from 45 to 65% intensity . Still the same smh

This is your problem. I have the same XR15 lights as you do. I run them at 100% intensity on AB plus and that barely provides sufficient par for a mixed reef 65g tank. Your pics show your torches on the sandbed. I bet you have very low par there or even mid tank with your lights intensity set low.

I am going to speculate that your flow is to harsh also. I run 2 MP40s that ramp up to 26% during the day and 20% overnight. When I ran higher moderate flow at 42% I lost torches.

 

[Jaybeastin]

This is your problem. I have the same XR15 lights as you do. I run them at 100% intensity on AB plus and that barely provides sufficient par for a mixed reef 65g tank. Your pics show your torches on the sandbed. I bet you have very low par there or even mid tank with your lights intensity set low.

I am going to speculate that your flow is to harsh also. I run 2 MP40s that ramp up to 26% during the day and 20% overnight. When I ran higher moderate flow at 42% I lost torches.

never heard anyone running them at 100% but you maybe right and I also run Ab+ . Don’t make sense though how my Acro sticks can live but my torch can’t. My flow is about 30% in my 75g and it’s not as strong as the mp40s

 

[snackpack]

never heard anyone running them at 100% but you maybe right and I also run Ab+ . Don’t make sense though how my Acro sticks can live but my torch can’t. My flow is about 30% in my 75g and it’s not as strong as the mp40s

I don't for a minute buy that your XR15 is too weak for torches. My wife has frogs, hammers, torches, and ricordea under a single Red Sea 50 LED... they're all doing just fine.

I've got a new-ish mixed reef 120g under two old Hydra 26HDs and I'm seeing consistent growth from my hammer, anacropora, war coral, acans, and zoanthids. Both of our tanks are "dirty" (WC's every month or so, when we get around to it), no dosing, nothing. The mentality that a single piece of equipment is causing death of certain species of coral/fish/etc is bogus to me. It's the "throw more money at it" mentality.

 

[Lavey29]

never heard anyone running them at 100% but you maybe right and I also run Ab+ . Don’t make sense though how my Acro sticks can live but my torch can’t. My flow is about 30% in my 75g and it’s not as strong as the mp40s

I run my powerheads 3 inches below the surface. I used to run my XR15 lights in the 50 to 70% intensity range. Lost corals had no real noticeable growth. I rented a par meter and found out how low my par was around the tank. I slowly bumped up to 100% and now my corals are thriving with growth and color. Torches went from 2 heads to 5 or 8 heads now, hammers 8 heads now, sticks went from tiny frags to full colonies, etc... all due to my lights, reduced flow and stable numbers. You can see torches in the back left corner.

 

[Jaybeastin]

I run my powerheads 3 inches below the surface. I used to run my XR15 lights in the 50 to 70% intensity range. Lost corals had no real noticeable growth. I rented a par meter and found out how low my par was around the tank. I slowly bumped up to 100% and now my corals are thriving with growth and color. Torches went from 2 heads to 5 or 8 heads now, hammers 8 heads now, sticks went from tiny frags to full colonies, etc... all due to my lights, reduced flow and stable numbers. You can see torches in the back left corner.

I believe you’re right ! Someone with a ton of torches just gave me advice about my problem . He has the same tank with a bunch of torches . He said I need 3 XR15s at 75% intensity because I have the pro

 

[Lavey29]

I believe you’re right ! Someone with a ton of torches just gave me advice about my problem . He has the same tank with a bunch of torches . He said I need 3 XR15s at 75% intensity because I have the pro

My pros run 100%. Check the availability in your area of renting a par meter. That's what I did. You can also use the photone app on your phone for a ballpark par number. It is fairly accurate but I only used it above the water surface.

 

[Dave Bentley]

I run my powerheads 3 inches below the surface. I used to run my XR15 lights in the 50 to 70% intensity range. Lost corals had no real noticeable growth. I rented a par meter and found out how low my par was around the tank. I slowly bumped up to 100% and now my corals are thriving with growth and color. Torches went from 2 heads to 5 or 8 heads now, hammers 8 heads now, sticks went from tiny frags to full colonies, etc... all due to my lights, reduced flow and stable numbers. You can see torches in the back left corner.

What was your "before" PAR reading, and what was your "after" PAR? Thanks.

 

[Lavey29]

What was your "before" PAR reading, and what was your "after" PAR? Thanks.

I had barely 150 par at the surface at 70% and almost none on the sand bed. At 100% I have 350 par at the surface down to 125 on the sandbed.

 

[cmarnold23]

Following as I am having the same problem. Not exactly what y’all are describing here but I’ll have one open less and less and it eventually dies off. It typically takes months to die off, it doesn’t Just happen right away. I run 4 reefbreeders photon v2 pros on my 375 gallon tank at 30% blue. Torches are at the top of the tank. I’m only running one jebao ow-50 powerhead at the lowest random setting. I have I have 25-30 torches and it’s rare for them to all be happy at the same time. Most of mine are indos but I have a few newer Malaysians. I do reef moonshiners too. And my parameters are pretty stable as well. I have a lot of corals and pretty much everything else is fine. I rarely lose other corals. It’s typically just the torches. I’m curious if anyone can provide any insight. I can send pictures of my parameters and icp tests as well. I’m getting aggravated with this as well.

 

[Lavey29]

Following as I am having the same problem. Not exactly what y’all are describing here but I’ll have one open less and less and it eventually dies off. It typically takes months to die off, it doesn’t Just happen right away. I run 4 reefbreeders photon v2 pros on my 375 gallon tank at 30% blue. Torches are at the top of the tank. I’m only running one jebao ow-50 powerhead at the lowest random setting. I have I have 25-30 torches and it’s rare for them to all be happy at the same time. Most of mine are indos but I have a few newer Malaysians. I do reef moonshiners too. And my parameters are pretty stable as well. I have a lot of corals and pretty much everything else is fine. I rarely lose other corals. It’s typically just the torches. I’m curious if anyone can provide any insight. I can send pictures of my parameters and icp tests as well. I’m getting aggravated with this as well.

Why are they at the top of the tank where the strongest flow is? They need low moderate flow not direct blast flow. I found this out as I lost a torch or two early on. Turned my MP40s down to 26% now torches go from 2 heads to 8 heads in growth.

 

[cmarnold23]

Why are they at the top of the tank where the strongest flow is? They need low moderate flow not direct blast flow. I found this out as I lost a torch or two early on. Turned my MP40s down to 26% now torches go from 2 heads to 8 heads in growth.

They aren’t getting blasted. I have one powerhead in an 8ft tank on the Lowest setting and the powerhead is on the opposite side of the tank from the torches. I have them near the top because that’s where the highest par is. I lost a hellfire today after only looking unhappy for a few days. But I did lose a torch recently that had been going downhill for months. So it’s possible that it spread bjd to the hellfire. I’m probably going to dose cipro to be safe. I’m also thinking I need to slowly bump up the par. Going to test par levels first to though. I’m thinking they are probably around 150-200 right now. But 250 may be better. I just hope I can raise it slow enough so I don’t make everything else mad.