Can't keep SPS

[qhduong]

I'm having a hard time keeping SPS. I've tried 3 different times now, all ended up with them dying. I'm able to keep LPS and softies without a problem (never lost anything and they've grown over time).

First time was 4 months ago, with some stylo, digi, etc. They all ended up STN and died. I think this first time was from lack of nutrients and dino outbreak.

Second time was 1 month ago, with a green slimer and monti. Monti ended up dying within a week, going pale and algae grew on it. Slimer STN over the next week.

Third time last week I kept another stick, which was fine for few days and RTN overnight. Had a magnesium swing that took magnesium to 1500, not sure if this is the problem.

Tank started in March.
Red Sea 300 XL (65 gal display + 15 gal sump)
Red Sea RSK 300 Skimmer
2x ReefLED 90 (switching to Radion XR15 G5 soon) (9 hour 60% peak, 30 min ramp up and down, 3 hour moonlight)
2x IceCap Gyre 2K
1x VarioS4 return pump

Salinity 35 PPT
Temp 78*
Nitrate 10
Phosphate 0.05 - 0.1
Alkalinity 7.8 - 8
Calcium 430
Magnesium 1350

I test everything daily except for magnesium which I test every 2 weeks. The only swing I've had was Magnesium in my third time trying. Every other times everything was stable. My problem is with keeping Nitrate and Phosphate. Phosphate often times bottom out and I have to dose NeoPhos. I've started doing that this week by testing in the morning and night and dosing to keep it above 0.

I started with dry rock, but added biodiversity via IPSF. Any pointers for what I can do? I would like to keep SPS, but not sure what my tank is missing. I dose with a doser that kept it pretty stable. The magnesium swing was from my overdosing manually.

 

[Bfragale]

I had the same problem. My tank is about a year older and I’m just trying sps again. I have no idea why, but I’m always reminded that a tank needs to be “mature” in order to keep sps. I have no idea why but it seems this may be true because my new sps is doing ok only after my tank was a year old? I have fairly high po4 (.1) and no3 (25ppm). And things so far seem to love it but I cannot tell what’s different now vs before. Maybe someone else may know why sps do better in Mature systems?

 

[720 Reefer]

The biggest key to SPS is stability. How large of a fluctuation is there in your alkalinity and calcium in a day? Do you dose throughout the day or just once a day? Do you have a ATO to keep your salinity stable? I added SPS to my tank after 3 months. Maturity definitely helps, but is not the biggest factor in my opinion.

 

[qhduong]

I have an ATO so there's no salinity swing. I dose throughout the day, every 4 hours to be exact. I test calcium and alk at the same time everyday, usually no swings (.1-.2 alk maybe). I think my problem is lack of phosphate, but not sure that will cause stn and rtn though.. M

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Try adding Pods and phyto. I got mine from Algae Barn and ever since SPS seem to do better.

 

[qhduong]

Try adding Pods and phyto. I got mine from Algae Barn and ever since SPS seem to do better.

Oh I also seeded with Tig pods, and dosing nanno phyto that I culture myself...

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Oh I also seeded with Tig pods, and dosing nanno phyto that I culture myself...

Have you checked the PAR in your tank? Two Reef 90’s could be enough light, but if they are only at 60%, you may be lacking the intensity that SPS require. The sure way to tell is with a PAR meter.

 

[qhduong]

Have you checked the PAR in your tank? Two Reef 90’s could be enough light, but if they are only at 60%, you may be lacking the intensity that SPS require. The sure way to tell is with a PAR meter.

Hm this I haven't tested. Shouldn't low light cause browning and not stn? I might get a meter rental when I switch over to Radion.

 

[Pdash]

Idk if low light is the cause of your issues, but there's no way thats enough light for acros. I swear people are now terrified of too much light and end up way way underlighting their tanks. If you are that afraid of LEDs get a 6 blub t5 or two 250watt metal halides and call it a day.

 

[IslandLifeReef]

Hm this I haven't tested. Shouldn't low light cause browning and not stn? I might get a meter rental when I switch over to Radion.

There are a number of things that can cause STN. Another possibility is whether you dip your new corals and how you dip them if you do.

Either way, if you change your lights, rent that PAR meter and map out your tank. It will pay dividends in the future.

 

[qhduong]

Idk if low light is the cause of your issues, but there's no way thats enough light for acros. I swear people are now terrified of too much light and end up way way underlighting their tanks. If you are that afraid of LEDs get a 6 blub t5 or two 250watt metal halides and call it a day.

Yeah I'm not really afraid of high lights, but more that it really brighten my room to the point of annoyance...

 

[qhduong]

There are a number of things that can cause STN. Another possibility is whether you dip your new corals and how you dip them if you do.

Either way, if you change your lights, rent that PAR meter and map out your tank. It will pay dividends in the future.

First 2 times I did coral rx and Bayer dip. This last time I just threw it in the tank...

 

[schuby]

Do you have any fish? What and how much do you feed/import? What do you do for removal/export of nutrients (GFO, skimmer, ATS, carbon, carbon-dosing, Chemi-pure, lanthanum chloride, ...)?

If your phosphate goes to zero, then the SPS can starve to death. Large variations in Alk will cause issues, too (> .2 - .3 per day IME).

Light and flow also have a large impact.

 

[qhduong]

Do you have any fish? What and how much do you feed/import? What do you do for removal/export of nutrients (GFO, skimmer, ATS, carbon, carbon-dosing, Chemi-pure, lanthanum chloride, ...)?

If your phosphate goes to zero, then the SPS can starve to death. Large variations in Alk will cause issues, too (> .2 - .3 per day IME).

Light and flow also have a large impact.

I have a small yellow and tomini tang, a six line wrasse, 2 clown, 2 damsel, 1 firefish, 1 algae blenny. I feed pellets 1-2 times a day. I feed frozen salmon once in a while, but fish don't really like it. No gfo, carbon dosing or anything like that. I have a skimmer but run it really dry, and even offline for few days a week. I have a fuge with chaeto on 6-8 hours a night.

 

[schuby]

If your phosphate gets close to zero frequently, then consider running your fuge light less and/or reducing the size of your chaeto.

 

[ScottB]

I had the same problem. My tank is about a year older and I’m just trying sps again. I have no idea why, but I’m always reminded that a tank needs to be “mature” in order to keep sps. I have no idea why but it seems this may be true because my new sps is doing ok only after my tank was a year old? I have fairly high po4 (.1) and no3 (25ppm). And things so far seem to love it but I cannot tell what’s different now vs before. Maybe someone else may know why sps do better in Mature systems?

I am one of "those" people who preach the value of system maturity. Probably too much.

Maturity is a fairly broad term that can be broken down into some components I think.

a) one part is just simply the smoothness of our husbandry process. We get better at WC process. Temp and salinity matched. We have a sense of our PAR distribution. We've ironed out our heating & cooling through the various seasons. We know when we need to crack a window for a little better pH. We know when we need to change our refugium settings to export more/less. Our fish stock and bioload have gradually gone up and then leveled off. We know when we need to measure and test and for what. We are better (smoother) reefers even if this is our 6th system. Because somehow, they are all different.

b) All that said -- even if our inputs were perfect from day 1 -- a new biome just takes time to find stasis. For many many months, the balance of power in the biome is shifting from one nutrient competitor to the next. It is one genocide after another. Different algaes, different bacteria, different microfauna and dinoflagellates.

c) The compound effect: Add to that continuous warfare our shifting inputs from part A. Change, change, change!

So we all read here often "my parameters are perfect" and given the parameters we can measure, the author is correct. But that does not always account for all the very real biome change that is taking place. Some of that change is visible, but much of it is very very subtle. Most SPS just don't deal well with change in the biome.

Much of Part B is discussed here. I feel it is a pretty good read.

Why cant u keep sps?

Well first and for most im not a scientist or marine biologist my theory base only on my experience and observation on my reef tank. I just want to help those that have problems keeping sps. In this discussion please keep it positive and dont make it to “i know better than u or led is better...

www.reef2reef.com

Lastly, some reefers get lucky AND have considerable skill. They are able to launch a successful acropora reef in months versus years, like Roberto who has done it several times.

My new SPS Tank

Hi Guys, After five years of keeping a Fish Only, I just started a new SPS tank. This tank has 50 days and I´m keeping my alk and ca just with kalkwasser. In 2 or 3 months I think I will start with balling ( tropic Marin ) plus kalk My setup is : 2x Hydra 52 1x Hydra 26 HD 2x T5 Blue Plus...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[Strad12]

what's the pH of your tank? pH plays a large role in coral health and growth, and a low pH will increase the population of pathogenic bacteria, leading to RTN and STN of your sticks. Consider using Kalkwasser in your ATO. it will increase your Ca and ALK levels, and hopefully get your pH around 8.3

Milwaukee makes a pH stick for under $30 that you can use to get a digital readout of your pH. I would highly recommend checking your pH throughout the day to get a sense of what's going on.

Another way to increase your success rate with sticks is to buy chunky, aquacultured frags. Little nubs aren't very resilient to stresses, especially in a new tank. Wild Acropora have spotty survivability even for the pros. You might want to increase the strength of your lights as well.

 

[Yevoc]

Just curious how are you testing Phosphate?

 

[sam.veilleux30]

what's the pH of your tank? pH plays a large role in coral health and growth, and a low pH will increase the population of pathogenic bacteria, leading to RTN and STN of your sticks. Consider using Kalkwasser in your ATO. it will increase your Ca and ALK levels, and hopefully get your pH around 8.3

Milwaukee makes a pH stick for under $30 that you can use to get a digital readout of your pH. I would highly recommend checking your pH throughout the day to get a sense of what's going on.

Another way to increase your success rate with sticks is to buy chunky, aquacultured frags. Little nubs aren't very resilient to stresses, especially in a new tank. Wild Acropora have spotty survivability even for the pros. You might want to increase the strength of your lights as well.

+1 for the aquacultured frags, as for the ph... never tested it in my 8 years of keeping sps.
Better to concentrate on a stable kh imo.
As for the stn, i dont think low light will cause it, so far i haven't seen it anyway.
Good luck, i really liked the videos of "coral euphoria" on youtube about the needs of sps, might worth the shot.

 

[qhduong]

I'm testing using Hanna Phosphate ULR, Red Sea Calcium, Hanna DKH, Nyos Nitrate. My nutrients are now higher... Let's see how the 4th try goes. My alk is stable at 8 now.