Carbon Dosing

[jtvaughn]

Hello ALL! I'm sure all of us have heard of carbon dosing but how many have put this method into use? Of course we use carbon dosing the reduce nutrients in our tanks and yes many companies have created media that help achieve this. But who has experimented with using a readily and available carbon source already in your home...like vinegar, sugar,or vodka? You can use them separately or create your own mixture using all three! WARNING!! using these methods can bring HUGE DANGERS to your reef if used in large doses because the bacteria feeding on the carbon you introduced to your setup WILL multiply greatly and will need to a protein skimmer to rid the waste left over by them. Start off with a low ml of carbon dosing say 5ml a couple days then test your nitrate levels. If they are not where you want them slowly increase the dose over a couple of days then test again. I have a 75 gal. setup and I use 5ml.(1tsp) of sugar diluted with ro water straight into the sump over a few days to help keep my nitrates at 10ppm. Give it a try if you wanna reduce nutrients instead of purchasing those expensive media on the market.

 

[Brew12]

Hello ALL! I'm sure all of us have heard of carbon dosing but how many have put this method into use? Of course we use carbon dosing the reduce nutrients in our tanks and yes many companies have created media that help achieve this. But who has experimented with using a readily and available carbon source already in your home...like vinegar, sugar,or vodka? You can use them separately or create your own mixture using all three! WARNING!! using these methods can bring HUGE DANGERS to your reef if used in large doses because the bacteria feeding on the carbon you introduced to your setup WILL multiply greatly and will need to a protein skimmer to rid the waste left over by them. Start off with a low ml of carbon dosing say 5ml a couple days then test your nitrate levels. If they are not where you want them slowly increase the dose over a couple of days then test again. I have a 75 gal. setup and I use 5ml.(1tsp) of sugar diluted with ro water straight into the sump over a few days to help keep my nitrates at 10ppm. Give it a try if you wanna reduce nutrients instead of purchasing those expensive media on the market.

I used to use a cheap bottle of vodka. Worked great. Now I worry more about keeping my nitrates up than lowering them.

 

[Sallstrom]

We use 96% ethanol at work, same stuff we're buying to our lab. We dilute it to about ~40% before we add to the aquariums. Has worked well for us the last couple of years. As long as you don't overdose

/ David

 

[250mixreef]

I've been dosing vinegar for about 2 yrs now. I also have to dose no3 to bring it up from zero but I feel it's easier to control this way

 

[Zazzy]

I dose 30 mg of white distilled vinegar everyday and what a difference it makes! Vodka is a little less safe then vinegar cause it can cause a red cyano outbreak if you use to much or not consistent enough!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

WARNING!! using these methods can bring HUGE DANGERS to your reef if used in large doses because the bacteria feeding on the carbon you introduced to your setup WILL multiply greatly and will need to a protein skimmer to rid the waste left over by them.

FWIW, I'm not sure I'd call the issues a huge danger, but I think the biggest risk of a serious problem is if you let the method drive nitrate too low, potentially allowing other problems such as starving corals or even encouraging dino problems.

I'm not actually certain that skimming is even needed, but I do agree that most people who use this method also skim. The skimming will help maintain O2 (which metabolism of organics reduces) and will likely export some fraction of the bacteria that make their way to the water column. Some other fraction of the bacteria will be eaten by filter feeders. If you did not skim, that "feeding"might be the main sink for many of the bacteria.

Another aspect of organic carbon dosing that doesn't get a lot of discussion is that it can directly feed many reef tank organisms (not just bacteria). Many corals, for example, can easily take up and directly use the acetate in vinegar. Maybe they all can.

FWIW, I'm a fan of vinegar dosing, primarily due to its ability to feed organisms, either directly or indirectly, and secondarily for its ability to keep nutrients, especially nitrate, under control.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I haven't done carbon dosing, other than nopox which doesn't seem to do anything. I have 3 tanks that I test and all are higher nitrates.
66 gal 1.5 years old approx runs 40-160, PO4 varies. I use phos guard to drop, occassionally need to dose
125 gal 3 months old runs approx 40-80, PO4 at .020
40 coral frag tank (sand, live rock) runs 20-40, don't test PO4

I do 5-10% water changes. I am a heavy feeder, esp with the anthias in the 66 gal tank

I'm thinking of dosing vinegar. How much, how often? If my numbers drop, can I back off, use it when needed? Or once started, you're stuck?

I'm aiming for 5-10

The 125 had some live rock in sump. No excess algae, no tank uglies, coraline at a month or so
Most corals seem happy. Lost one birds nest and have one sedosa monipora bleaching out from base in the 66. Other sedosas in other tanks doing fine. Suns in 66 also not opening as much but might be due to a clove too close that touches it.

 

[RobZilla04]

^ NoPox is carbon! How often and how much are you currently dosing?

Systems that are currently successful with higher nutrients can often quickly spiral downward upon drastic changes in nutrient levels. Especially with the introduction of additives. FWIW NoPox is a mixture of Vinegar & Vodka (along with ethanol and acetic acid). I've been using a DIY solution which can be found in the forums. Essentially 15oz Vinegar, 12oz Vodka, 4oz RODI.

 

[Susan Edwards]

I know that nopox is carbon. I've been dosing 10 ml. daily to the 66 gal. Directions say to dose 6 ml. It does nothing. Was afraid to up the dose. I will probably after this bottle is gone go the home made recipe, unless straight vinegar is better. I don't want the cyano issues. I've added vinegar to my dosing for an extra boost --only 2 ml and started vinegar with the other 2 tanks, starting way low. I don't want the 66 gal to go down too low, but even getting back to 40 would be good though 20 is my goal. There are a couple corals that might be objecting to the 80-160 range, plus I'm seeing algae returning, not bad but it's appearing here and there. So I think that tank needs to go down in its nutrients. I have one powerhead growing algae--acting like an algae scrubber. I leave it--just yank some off during water changes. Other 2 powerheads are fine.

 

[RobZilla04]

Whichever route one decides to choose keep in mind that "The ratio is about 8 times more carbon in 80 proof (40% by weight) vodka than vinegar (which is usually 5% organic by weight). For a conservative method one may use the same guidelines for dosing ethanol in the article below, except use 8 (eight) times as much vinegar as ethanol for the 40% ethanol directions..." The chart is in the article linked below.

Source: http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index...ar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

 

[Susan Edwards]

Yes, that is the chart I'm using to start vinegar to the 40 & 125 gal, and the 66 gal. I'm testing that tank daily to keep an eye on it.

What is the advantage of using a homemade nopox to just vinegar

 

[RobZilla04]

Yes, that is the chart I'm using to start vinegar to the 40 & 125 gal, and the 66 gal. I'm testing that tank daily to keep an eye on it.

What is the advantage of using a homemade nopox to just vinegar

Not sure there is an advantage. I just gave it a try when I stumbled upon it and have stuck with it over time. If I had to give an opinion, purely non scientific, I am getting the benefits of the variety of bacteria from the vinegar along with less volume in each dose because of the increased potency of the vodka.

 

[Susan Edwards]

So I started using the DIY Nopox. 66 gal tank has dropped to between 10-20 finally. Slowly adding to the other two tanks and doing almost daily no3 testing. po4 bottomed out on the 66 tank so removed gfo and phosguard and dosed florish. We will see how this goes!

 

[code4]

I dose 30 mg of white distilled vinegar everyday and what a difference it makes! Vodka is a little less safe then vinegar cause it can cause a red cyano outbreak if you use to much or not consistent enough!

How many gains is your tank? Thank you.

Shelley

 

[Bigfudge]

I've been trying to lower my po4 and No3 for quite some time now. I upgraded my skimmer, reduced my feeding schedule and use GFO. I even dosed PhosphateRX and dropped it to .03 but the next day it P04 was back up to .15. N03 varies between 2-4 on any given week with the RedSea test Kit.

Would carbon dosing be worth it with my current levels? I know my numbers overall aren't "horrible" but I'd like both parameters lower.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I've been trying to lower my po4 and No3 for quite some time now. I upgraded my skimmer, reduced my feeding schedule and use GFO. I even dosed PhosphateRX and dropped it to .03 but the next day it P04 was back up to .15. N03 varies between 2-4 on any given week with the RedSea test Kit.

Would carbon dosing be worth it with my current levels? I know my numbers overall aren't "horrible" but I'd like both parameters lower.

I’d say the Po4 jump was test error.

Were i you , I’d take Randy’s cues and start on some super low dose vinegar. Both for the bacteria but for your coral and micro fauna.

Heed his warnings on the dangers of dropping the the number too low.
Just saying , I’ve answered about a three dozen threads in how to dose no3 and Po4 to cure dinos and Chrysto. That’s just this week.

 

[Bigfudge]

I’d say the Po4 jump was test error.

Were i you , I’d take Randy’s cues and start on some super low dose vinegar. Both for the bacteria but for your coral and micro fauna.

Heed his warnings on the dangers of dropping the the number too low.
Just saying , I’ve answered about a three dozen threads in how to dose no3 and Po4 to cure dinos and Chrysto. That’s just this week.

Thanks Salty! I actually thought it was a testing error as well and rested it three separate times. Each time I got the same result +/- approx .03 ppm of the initial result. I was using the Hanna ULR P04 tester. Maybe the initial test after dosing Phosphate RX was the actual error, but it was inline with my pre-dose levels and expected result after the dose.

I've been concerned about getting the numbers too low. I'll go slow with it, the last thing I want to do is get Dinos! I just want the P04 and N03 more in line with "good".

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Thanks Salty! I actually thought it was a testing error as well and rested it three separate times. Each time I got the same result +/- approx .03 ppm of the initial result. I was using the Hanna ULR P04 tester. Maybe the initial test after dosing Phosphate RX was the actual error, but it was inline with my pre-dose levels and expected result after the dose.

I've been concerned about getting the numbers too low. I'll go slow with it, the last thing I want to do is get Dinos! I just want the P04 and N03 more in line with "good".

You’re welcome!
Personally I think most folks would kill for your numbers. Lol

 

[Mjrjj23]

I've used nopox basically since day 1. Has always kept my NO3 and P04 under control. Always kept my tank a little on the dirty side but other than your typical glass algea mine has stayed relativly perfect. I deal with bubble algea from time to time but never been a big enough issue for me to make drastic changes and endanger the reef

 

[Vteclover]

Started carbon dosing to.
Like everything in this hobby,go slow .
Better to bring the numbers down slowly.
For example I rather go one month from 0,20 phosphate to 0,10 than to shock everything in a week from
0.20 to 0,10
Growing to fast and to many bacterial colony takes to fast oxygen to and we dont want that.

If my bottle of nopox is empty i wil make my own vsv becose molybden is just rising over target.
Nopox raises molybdenlevels to ;-)