CCOMBS FIRST REEF!
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OP
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ccombs
Valuable Member
My tank is so small that I just decided to do all or nothing. In a larger system I might slowly ramp it up.
Did you rinse your sand at set up? Is the goby digging? That will stir up the fine powder and make the water cloudy, been there done thatCleared up in about a week with filter sock changed daily.
I did rinse my sand and goby digs a little, nothing crazy. Don't get me wrong, the water isn't too cloudy. I just want the type of water that I see in some tanks where it might as well not be there.
Seawitch
Water, water everywhere,
I´m glad that you use your own head
You asked me a question about nitrite toxicity in another place - I prefer to answer in your own thread
On request – I will write down my thinking about nitrite (NO2) and its toxicity in different waters.
First – nitrite in the bloodstream is toxic for nearly all organisms including most fish and even us. When nitrite reach the blood stream it will create another form of haemoglobin – methaemoglobin. The NO2 ion will oxidize the iron part of the haemoglobin from Fe 2+ to Fe3+. This form of haemoglobin can´t take up oxygen and the organism will suffocate till it dies. Among humans nitrite can enter the bloodstream through the digestive system from nitrite rich food (like spinach) or from nitrate not fully denitriated by the digestive bacteria. Therefore – in Sweden it is advised not to give a child below 2 years old spinach and there is a norm value of NO3 concentrations in drinking water (50 ppm in Sweden).
In water with high NO2 levels has it been shown that the NO2 ion can enter a fish body and hence coming into the bloodstream and causing methemoglobin formation and hence cause suffocation of the fish. It has been shown that the uptake take place in the gills and the uptake process use certain channels (or mechanisms) for this.
NO2 toxification in newly started FW aquaria is the most common reason for death of freshwater species IMO. When the forming of methaemoglobin take place – the blood become brownish – Brown Blood Disease.
However – it is rather easy to hinder NO2 toxicity in fresh water even if there is NO2 ions in the water – its only need enough of free chloride ions in the water – as described here:
Further – FW fish do not drink normally – the digestive entrance is blocked for uptake
This means that we in saltwater with a chloride concentration of more than 19 000 ppm do not need to have any concern about high NO3 levels in the water and uptake through the gills.
However – most SW fish do drink water. Should we be worried about uptake through the digestive track. IMO not because I have measured NO2 levels of up to 2 ppm in the water with no problems with SW fish. Further - could high NO3 levels and a not fully completed denitrification in the digestive track cause NO2 toxicity among SW species – IMO – not normal likely. One reason for this is that most organisms using haemoglobin as oxygen transporter normally produce low amount of methaemoglobin too and therefore also have developed an enzyme in order to change it back to haemoglobin again. With FW species I´m pretty sure that this enzyme exist among them because the brown blood disease (NO2 poising) is reversable among the fishes I have had experiences with.
One interesting thing is how organisms that not use haemoglobin as oxygen transporter reacts to elevated NO2 levels in SW. Horseshoe crab is one example – anyone that have experiences with this organism and elevated NO2 levels in the water? They and some other arthropods and molluscs use hemocyanin instead of haemoglobin as an oxygen transporter. The active metal is here not Fe – instead it is Cu. The answer I can see is that it looks like a similar pattern between FW and SW with these organisms.
Sincerely Lasse
@Lasse isn't methylene blue used to treat an excess of methaemoglobin? Doesn't it help to convert methaemoglobin back to haemoglobin?
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
When introducing activated carbon, in my experience it’s best to err on the side of “less is more”. In my system of 160 gallons (actual water volume) I only use 500ml worth of activated carbon. It’s put in a bag, rinsed in DI water and put in the baffle in my sump before the pump return, and here’s the important part, there’s plenty of room for the bulk of the water to flow around it. It’s more efficient than tossing the bag on the floor of the sump and passively allowing the carbon to work, but it isn’t as efficient as forcing all of the water through it or running it in a canister at a high flow rate.
If you are going to run your activated carbon in a reactor you want to regulate the flow rate to a slow enough flow that your not “over stripping” the water.
Like anything in this it’s a delicate balance.
You’re already learning the most important thing to remember when something really seems out of place and that’s not to make snap judgements and react in haste! Apparently you’re experiencing some personal growth along with the stuff growing on your rocks!
Wise choice on the Wyoming white clownfish over the maroon clowns. In the end you likely would have only had a tank with a pair of Maroons, or worse, a single very territorial female. I had one when I was younger, she killed all of her mates;Blackeye, along with any other fish that was placed in the tank after her.
If you are going to run your activated carbon in a reactor you want to regulate the flow rate to a slow enough flow that your not “over stripping” the water.
Like anything in this it’s a delicate balance.
You’re already learning the most important thing to remember when something really seems out of place and that’s not to make snap judgements and react in haste! Apparently you’re experiencing some personal growth along with the stuff growing on your rocks!
Wise choice on the Wyoming white clownfish over the maroon clowns. In the end you likely would have only had a tank with a pair of Maroons, or worse, a single very territorial female. I had one when I was younger, she killed all of her mates;Blackeye, along with any other fish that was placed in the tank after her.
OP
OP
ccombs
Valuable Member
It is funny, I am very methodical on everything else in life, it hit me that I should apply it to the reef as well lol.When introducing activated carbon, in my experience it’s best to err on the side of “less is more”. In my system of 160 gallons (actual water volume) I only use 500ml worth of activated carbon. It’s put in a bag, rinsed in DI water and put in the baffle in my sump before the pump return, and here’s the important part, there’s plenty of room for the bulk of the water to flow around it. It’s more efficient than tossing the bag on the floor of the sump and passively allowing the carbon to work, but it isn’t as efficient as forcing all of the water through it or running it in a canister at a high flow rate.
If you are going to run your activated carbon in a reactor you want to regulate the flow rate to a slow enough flow that your not “over stripping” the water.
Like anything in this it’s a delicate balance.
You’re already learning the most important thing to remember when something really seems out of place and that’s not to make snap judgements and react in haste! Apparently you’re experiencing some personal growth along with the stuff growing on your rocks!
Wise choice on the Wyoming white clownfish over the maroon clowns. In the end you likely would have only had a tank with a pair of Maroons, or worse, a single very territorial female. I had one when I was younger, she killed all of her mates;Blackeye, along with any other fish that was placed in the tank after her.
OP
OP
ccombs
Valuable Member
The back of the IM tanks are cool because they are baffled. This allows me to put in this media caddy sort of thing that forces water through whatever media I want. I use filter floss at the first stage, then have 2 other stages for carbon, gfo, etc.When introducing activated carbon, in my experience it’s best to err on the side of “less is more”. In my system of 160 gallons (actual water volume) I only use 500ml worth of activated carbon. It’s put in a bag, rinsed in DI water and put in the baffle in my sump before the pump return, and here’s the important part, there’s plenty of room for the bulk of the water to flow around it. It’s more efficient than tossing the bag on the floor of the sump and passively allowing the carbon to work, but it isn’t as efficient as forcing all of the water through it or running it in a canister at a high flow rate.
If you are going to run your activated carbon in a reactor you want to regulate the flow rate to a slow enough flow that your not “over stripping” the water.
Like anything in this it’s a delicate balance.
You’re already learning the most important thing to remember when something really seems out of place and that’s not to make snap judgements and react in haste! Apparently you’re experiencing some personal growth along with the stuff growing on your rocks!
Wise choice on the Wyoming white clownfish over the maroon clowns. In the end you likely would have only had a tank with a pair of Maroons, or worse, a single very territorial female. I had one when I was younger, she killed all of her mates;Blackeye, along with any other fish that was placed in the tank after her.
The hardest part about making judgement calls is that you read a forum and you see someone have 2 years of progression on a build thread, but you read their thread in 20 minutes and forget the timeline. This is what I would always forget, that it didn't happen overnight. So I would see techniques used of the course of 2 years, and then I would decide to implement them all in a short time span lol.
As far as personal growth, I have learned there are different types of patience. Being patient with people has always come easily, being patient with a project overtime is fine. An aquarium takes a whole new type of patience. You do so much work up front and then literally just have to stop. Then after awhile you do a few more things, then stop again. The starting and stopping is where I had to grow. I am the type of person to get the ball rolling and keep going, so stopping and waiting was tough to learn.
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Very true. I had the same issues my first 6 months of reefing on my biocube. As soon as I stopped trying to keep it so clean and stopped watching it like a hawk, it began actually taking off. It’s funny how that works out.
I really do not know but in order to work - I think it must come into the fish. As I know - it does not - at least not with FW species - it can differ with SW species just because of their ability to drink.
The reason why freshwater species not drink but saltwater species do is that freshwater fish have a higher salt content compared with the water (0,7-0.9 % to 0 in the water) The osmosis will make water going into the fish and salt out. It does not need any more water, instead it has to pee a lot. For saltwater species - osmosis make the salt going into the fish and water out. They need to excrete salt, take in water through the digestive track and not pee. The fact that SW specie may drink will lead to that you normally can´t use the same concentration of “medicines” in fresh compared with saltwater. Many antibiotics is water soluble, therefore they are not as effective in fresh water compared with in saltwater if you put them in the water. In saltwater they will enter the fish through the digestive track (remember they drink) and are normally rather effective. In freshwater – you maybe need concentrations around 10 times higher.
Therefore – there is a chance that methylene blue can enter the fish internally for saltwater species but not for freshwater species.
Sincerely Lasse
Rick.45cal
2500 Club Member
Ah yes, the great hurry up and wait!
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Very informative! Thank you
OP
OP
ccombs
Valuable Member
Yep! But you are right, much personal growth from this hobby indeed. This hobby seems like it will have a ton of positive influence in life with things totally unrelated to fish.
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Oh for sure. My wife wants to have kids sometime in the next few years. I’m all about really planning it out over the next decade... lol
OP
OP
ccombs
Valuable Member
I have somehow avoided that conversation so far lol.
Obviously not speaking from experience, but I have heard you will never feel like you are ready for kids no matter how much you plan. Someday it will just happen and you will make it work haha. Best of luck to your future parenting endeavors!
Congrats on the wife btw. I saw you changed your profile picture and I just assumed you got a serious girlfriend recently or something lol.
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Lol thanks man! You to when the convo comes up as well! Haha
Just prepare for at least 20 years of fighting – after that the bonus will come (grandchildren) sooner or later. Now you can get even with your childs – just spoil the grandchildren and avoid the responsibility – says a father of 4 (with the same wife ) and with 6 grandchildren
Sincerely Lasse
Now you can get even with your childs – just spoil the grandchildren and avoid the responsibility – says a father of 4 (with the same wife ) and with 6 grandchildrenSincerely Lasse
Is it not time for you Californias to get to bed now? Here - I´m starting my saturday morning with a good cup of coffee
Sincerely Lasse
Sincerely Lasse
Hemmdog
10K Club member
Haha yes, heading to bed now.Is it not time for you Californias to get to bed now? Here - I´m starting my saturday morning with a good cup of coffee
Sincerely Lasse
CeeGee
Active Member
ATO can help drastically to keep salinity on point. However if using a two part solution depending on how much you are having to add it can throw salinity out of whack. I add about 100ml daily of alk and cal daily to my 75 gallon tank so I really have to watch things. Hence the reason I check salinity daily. Once again if it is off so is EVERYTHING else. Good idea to check it daily with a refractometer or a salinity probe which aren’t very accurate but can help spot trends.
Not sure if you are doing two part or calcium reactor I don’t recall seeing that info. Don’t think a calcium reactor would affect a tank in this manner. I have never run one so I’m not real sure. If I had the money I think I would go that route. Being poor sucks.
Last edited:
CeeGee
Active Member
Just prepare for at least 20 years of fighting – after that the bonus will come (grandchildren) sooner or later.
Sincerely Lasse
This is TRUTH!!!
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