Chloroquine phosphate

[Dr. Reef]

Hippo will not survive CP

 

[Halal Hotdog]

Hippo will not survive CP

Hippo's become very lethargic and deteriorate quickly in CP. With Hippos and wrasses copper might be a better option. There is also a hydrogen peroxide treatment being discussed but I have no experience with that.

 

[Humblefish]

Hippo's become very lethargic and deteriorate quickly in CP. With Hippos and wrasses copper might be a better option. There is also a hydrogen peroxide treatment being discussed but I have no experience with that.

I have found that it is possible to treat Chloroquine sensitive species (e.g. Hippo Tangs, Anthias, Paracheilinus + Pseudocheilinus Wrasses), but you have to do two things differently:

1. Precondition them (feed often) in a non-medicated environment for at least 2 weeks. They cannot tolerate just going straight into CP from the wholesalers.
2. Treat at 20-40mg/gal for 10 days and then transfer into another tank. This skirts the minimum therapeutic level for CP (20mg/gal) dangerously close, so observation afterwards in a non-medicated aquarium is required to ensure treatment was successful.

The above is a PITA (but still doable) for hobbyists; however it is not practical when selling on a commercial level IME.

 

[Halal Hotdog]

I have found that it is possible to treat Chloroquine sensitive species (e.g. Hippo Tangs, Anthias, Paracheilinus + Pseudocheilinus Wrasses), but you have to do two things differently:

1. Precondition them (feed often) in a non-medicated environment for at least 2 weeks. They cannot tolerate just going straight into CP from the wholesalers.
2. Treat at 20-40mg/gal for 10 days and then transfer into another tank. This skirts the minimum therapeutic level for CP (20mg/gal) dangerously close, so observation afterwards in a non-medicated aquarium is required to ensure treatment was successful.

The above is a PITA (but still doable) for hobbyists; however it is not practical when selling on a commercial level IME.

It seems like it is possible. I usually treat straight on delivery of the fish, which may explain the quick deterioration of Hippos.. Hublefish is there a new peroxide treatment that can be done rather than CP for these more sensitive fish?

 

[Humblefish]

It seems like it is possible. I usually treat straight on delivery of the fish, which may explain the quick deterioration of Hippos.. Hublefish is there a new peroxide treatment that can be done rather than CP for these more sensitive fish?

A single 30 min, 150ppm H2O2 bath takes care of most problems: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hydrogen-peroxide.640232/

This is more thorough: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/hybrid-ttm-to-treat-all-parasites.640247/

Post bath (or TTM) you'll want to observe with black mollies alongside: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/black-molly-quarantine.640235/

In additional to external pathogens, you'll want to watch closely for internal flagellates/intestinal worms (white stringy poop) which H2O2 does not treat.

 

[Onajoyride]

Thanks for the reply and help. I have decided to do another round of copper power instead of cp. I thought it was ich but turns out it's the quicker variety of velvet. Purple tang had 2 spits in the am and when I got home from work and checked in on them the purple was covered. So I did the treatment protocol from humble and the spots are going away and it's back to eating. Looks like I will do a full 30 days instead of the 15 I tried.

 

[Onajoyride]

One quick note is to keep the amonia down I was using aqueon amonia absorption pads. It never occurred to me the sulfer base in those could react with the copper and potentially cause toxicity issues. I removed the pad and grabbed fresh sponges from my sump as well as a massive water change in case the water was not ideal.

Am I correct in assuming the water quality needs to be pristine for the first few days after the velvet falls off the fish to help combat secondary infections or is there an additive I can put in. I am using copper power dosing to 2.0ppm.

 

[JustGetACat]

I've noticed that the powder form of CP is getting harder to find, and many pharmacies are wanting to substitute it with CP tablets. The tablets are fine to use, but the downside is you get less "chloroquine base" out of them so you must dose more (which becomes more expensive). The following was taken from Bob Goemans online book, THE LIVING AQUARIUM MANUAL:

Currently dosing my Sailfin Tang with pharmaceutical CP (500mg) tablets. The comment stated in this thread suggested that a 250mg CP tablet would only have ~130mg pure CP. WRONG. I asked the pharmacist and they told me that a 500mg pill of CP would have 500mg of CP, and probably ~200mg of binders. I confirmed this by weighing each pill on a scale that weights to 0.001 (weights to mg) and each pill weighed almost exactly 700mg. I hope no one has taken that comment to heart like I almost did, as it would have led to some unsuccessful attempts at curing velvet with CP because you'd be wayyyyyy under dosing.

 

[GoldeneyeRet]

Currently dosing my Sailfin Tang with pharmaceutical CP (500mg) tablets. The comment stated in this thread suggested that a 250mg CP tablet would only have ~130mg pure CP. WRONG. I asked the pharmacist and they told me that a 500mg pill of CP would have 500mg of CP, and probably ~200mg of binders. I confirmed this by weighing each pill on a scale that weights to 0.001 (weights to mg) and each pill weighed almost exactly 700mg. I hope no one has taken that comment to heart like I almost did, as it would have led to some unsuccessful attempts at curing velvet with CP because you'd be wayyyyyy under dosing.

Wouldnt that lead to an overdose rather than under dose ?

 

[JustGetACat]

Wouldnt that lead to an overdose rather than under dose ?

It would if you didn't take the ~200mg of filler into consideration. That's why it is still necessary to weigh the pills, so you need a 0.001 scale (cheap on Amazon). Because if the pill is labeled as 500mg, and you weight 700mg, you KNOW that 200mg is filler. But if I had thought a 250mg pill was only 130mg of CP, and then weighed the pill and it was say...300mg, then I would be way under-dosing. But that's only an issue when you're weighing the powdered medicine. That's why when I dosed I just make a stock solution of the dissolved medicine in some RO water and that way I just knew each ml has however many mg of CP, depending of course on however large I made my stock solution. FYI make a relatively large stock solution. I had 20 500mg pills and made 1 litre out of it and it did not dissolve too well. I would make it larger in the future.
In short....whatever mg of medicine a pill is labeled for, that's how much medicine is in it. 500mg pill = 500mg of CP. But the pill itself will weigh more, for the fillers.

 

[Humblefish]

Currently dosing my Sailfin Tang with pharmaceutical CP (500mg) tablets. The comment stated in this thread suggested that a 250mg CP tablet would only have ~130mg pure CP. WRONG. I asked the pharmacist and they told me that a 500mg pill of CP would have 500mg of CP, and probably ~200mg of binders. I confirmed this by weighing each pill on a scale that weights to 0.001 (weights to mg) and each pill weighed almost exactly 700mg. I hope no one has taken that comment to heart like I almost did, as it would have led to some unsuccessful attempts at curing velvet with CP because you'd be wayyyyyy under dosing.

The information I quoted was taken from Bob Goemans online book, The Living Aquarium Manual. Which also states: "Although the purity mentioned above is generally accurate, it would be best to verify the chloroquine base contained in the tablets of your choice in order to be able to properly calculate the exact dosage." So, one should always verify the chloroquine base from the pharmacist/vendor and dose accordingly.

 

[Opah]

Below are my anecdotal observations with CP:

• It is effective against external protozoans (ich, velvet, brook, uronema) when used in a bare bottom, rockless QT.
• CP works the same as copper, successfully targeting the “free swimming” or theront stage. Treatment lasts 30 consecutive days (same as copper). Its advantage over copper is greatly reduced side effects.
• No practical "test kit" for CP exists. It is a “one and done” medication, meaning you dose once and that’s it. It’s important that you dose accurately using a digital scale. Typically, I do a 100% water change in-between batches of fish and then re-dose. A metabolite of chloroquine – hydroxycloroquine – has a long half-life of 32–56 days, so it's not a good idea to use a single dosage past one month anyway.
• Using CP in a display tank or any tank with rock/substrate almost always fails to eradicate the parasites. I believe this to be due to absorption. Just like with copper, rocks/substrate absorb CP, dropping it below therapeutic levels. And since there is no test kit, there is no way of knowing how much CP to add back to raise the level.
• Using pharmaceutical grade 99% pure CP (the 1% is a binder) in a bare bottom, rockless QT environment for 30 days has worked for me every single time. For over 5 years now. However, I have read numerous anecdotal accounts where CP bought off eBay or some online vendor fails. I believe this is because these sources will often "water down" their CP using fillers to increase profitability. Or if CP is originally sourced from outside the country, say China for example; then their QC standards might not be the same as here. Which is why the only way to be sure you are getting the "good stuff" is to get your vet to write you a prescription that can then be filled at a local pharmacy.
• CP probably does nothing for internal parasites/worms (i.e. flukes) and bacterial infections. CP is NOT reef safe. CP WILL NOT wipe out your QT's bio-filter.
• DO NOT run a skimmer, carbon, UV, ozone, polyfilter, etc. with CP. Also, there is some debate over how much light is required to break CP down - so best to treat in ambient lighting.
• CP is widely used by Marine Biologists and Public Aquariums. Why we, the hobbyists, have been left in the dark for so long about it is truly mind boggling.

I was hoping to clarify. Should this be treated for 10 days (in the original post) or for 30 days (quoted here)? Thanks in advance.

 

[Dr. Reef]

Minimum 2 weeks. Beyond that depends on your fish. If they look lethargic or quit eating etc then move them to sterile tank.

 

[Shawn M]

Apologize if this was answered elsewhere, but if I treat my larger fish in a 125 gallon QT with 60mg/gallon CP (no signs of infection in them ever thus far, doing this empirically), do I need to move them from the bare-bottomed QT after the 10 day treatment cycle? It’s a 6” achilles, a 5” blonde naso, and a 5” hippo.

what are my duration of treatment options for keeping them in the 125 and maintaining CP levels without moving tanks?

@Humblefish, @Dr. Reef, or any others, would appreciate input.

 

[Shawn M]

Also, to piggyback, in terms of sterilization of materials between TTM or CP treatments, what concentration of vinegar should we be using and how long should we be soaking these items?

thanks!

 

[dragon99]

Pros – Gentle on most fish. (DO NOT USE with Hippo Tangs, anthias and flasher wrasses.) CP treats most external protozoa, and is probably the closest thing there is to a “wonder drug” in our hobby.

@Shawn M The hippo tang is unlikely to survive a CP treatment.

So if you are planning to treat them all together, you should probably look at copper.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I agree hippos normally dont survive cp. Copper will be better option.

 

[Cook]

I agree hippos normally dont survive cp. Copper will be better option.

I found this thread one day after I treated my QT with CP at 60mg/gallon for ich and I have a hippo. After an initial freakout moment in front of my keyboard, I decided to wait and observe since I had not seen any negative effects. In my case, he is active and eating normally so far. He also looks good physically. He is in with a group of fish that came from another reefer and spent 7 days in the QT tank before I saw signs of ich and moved to treat them. I plan to tank transfer the group for observation after 10-14 days or earlier if I notice a change in the hippo's behavior. This is day 7. Are there after effects with CP? From what I read here the impact seemed to indicate a more immediate response to the treatment.

 

[dragon99]

I found this thread one day after I treated my QT with CP at 60mg/gallon for ich and I have a hippo. After an initial freakout moment in front of my keyboard, I decided to wait and observe since I had not seen any negative effects. In my case, he is active and eating normally so far. He also looks good physically. He is in with a group of fish that came from another reefer and spent 7 days in the QT tank before I saw signs of ich and moved to treat them. I plan to tank transfer the group for observation after 10-14 days or earlier if I notice a change in the hippo's behavior. This is day 7. Are there after effects with CP? From what I read here the impact seemed to indicate a more immediate response to the treatment.

I've read of a few people successful getting a hippo through CP. Quoting @Humblefish here "Symptoms of Chloroquine intolerance include: Appetite suppression, heavy breathing, lethargy, erratic swimming/swimming in circles, the fish's colors are pale. "

 

[Cassklar]

hello I will be putting a couple of tiger gobies and and a couple of ruby red dragonet through CP. is it ok to put live rock with pods in. there for the dragonets and a little dry sand for the gobies to sift through while I do CP treatment. also can I use biospira to help with ammonia?.
Thanks in advance