Chloroquine phosphate

[PeterG]

ok so here is the testing i did.
I took a cup of DT water as standard as it has never seen copper or CP.
I ran an API and Seachem copper test on it.
Then i added enough CP for a 40 gal qt treatment (about half teaspoon) i re-tested the water with the same 2 kits.

1st vial is standard DT water
2nd is DT water with 1 drop of cupramine
3rd is DT mixed with CP (equivalent to 40 gal treatment)

As you can see in the vials i used API test kit and
1st Vial remains clear (0 copper)
2nd Vial had cupramine (shows lots of cpper)
3rd vial had CP turned a bit milky but no color

On the Seachem test
1st is clear
2nd is positive for copper (has a drop of cupramine)
3rd is clear (CP equivalent to 40 gal treatment)

Thanks Dr. Reef. Interesting results. It appears that CP does not register on any of the copper tests. Have you tried something similar to see how the CP effects the various ammonia tests?

IME; CP will sometimes cause false positives with liquid ammonia test kits. But the ammonia badge should still work fine.

Thanks Humblefish. So based on the results I posted would you suggest I sit tight on any action right now? Nitrates @ approx 10ppm and Nitrites at approx 1ppm acceptable?
My game plan was to do 25% WC changes weekly during QT period but can alter that if these numbers warrant it.

 

[jasonrusso]

ok so here is the testing i did.
I took a cup of DT water as standard as it has never seen copper or CP.
I ran an API and Seachem copper test on it.
Then i added enough CP for a 40 gal qt treatment (about half teaspoon) i re-tested the water with the same 2 kits.

1st vial is standard DT water
2nd is DT water with 1 drop of cupramine
3rd is DT mixed with CP (equivalent to 40 gal treatment)

As you can see in the vials i used API test kit and
1st Vial remains clear (0 copper)
2nd Vial had cupramine (shows lots of cpper)
3rd vial had CP turned a bit milky but no color

On the Seachem test
1st is clear
2nd is positive for copper (has a drop of cupramine)
3rd is clear (CP equivalent to 40 gal treatment)

Why are you testing for CP with a copper test kit? Did I miss something?

 

[Humblefish]

Thanks Humblefish. So based on the results I posted would you suggest I sit tight on any action right now? Nitrates @ approx 10ppm and Nitrites at approx 1ppm acceptable?
My game plan was to do 25% WC changes weekly during QT period but can alter that if these numbers warrant it.

Shine a bright white light (e.g. cell phone flashlight) either directly overhead or behind the ammonia alert badge, and let that be your guide. It should always look yellow. Even a hint of green is a problem.

You can always double check your alert badge with Seachem's ammonia test kit. Same technology, but it will let you know if the alert badge is faulty.

 

[PeterG]

Shine a bright white light (e.g. cell phone flashlight) either directly overhead or behind the ammonia alert badge, and let that be your guide. It should always look yellow. Even a hint of green is a problem.

You can always double check your alert badge with Seachem's ammonia test kit. Same technology, but it will let you know if the alert badge is faulty.

Might be a hint of green. gonna do a WC just to be on the safe side.
Regarding the Seachem ammonia badges: Do you reuse them and if so how do you sterilize/disinfect between QTs. I cleaned my first badge with either bleach or a vinegar solution and now the center button stays white. Got it in the QT with the new one.
Any way to revitalize it or just toss it?

 

[Dr. Reef]

Why are you testing for CP with a copper test kit? Did I miss something?

Someone asked if CP effects test results. So as experiment I checked saltwater, copper dosed saltwater and CP dosed saltwater to compare the results and to my finding against API and Seachem test kits CP did NOT alter the results.

 

[Dr. Reef]

I have never used a Seachem badge with CP but ive read and heard from many fellow hobbyists that CP tends to turn badge slight green.
Iam not sure If thats really positive for ammonia or just some other reaction.

 

[Dr. Reef]

i am not sure what i was thinking. Ammonia test kits were in question i checked copper. anyways i just did a test with API ammonia kit as thats all i have for now.

1st vial is DT water
2nd vial is DT + 1/2 drop of cupramine
3rd vial 0.05 mg CP

Test results without waiting any time after mixing (suppose to wait 5 min)
Results are at 0 min wait

1st vial shows 0 ammonia
2nd vial shows 0.25
3rd just turned extremely milky

Test results after waiting 5 min

1st vial remains 0
2nd turned more darker 0.25-0.5 range
3rd remained milky

so with API Ammonia test atleast there was no positive color showing.

 

[PeterG]

@Humblefish @Dr. Reef
I’m having trouble controlling the ammonia in my 25gal QT. I’ve got 4 fish (sm. sailfin tang, black darwin clown, flame angel and a scribbled rabbitfish) in QT right now.

The tank was filled with water from DT on 5/19 and I added 30ml Dr Time’s One & Only. It has been running with a HOB filter with ceramic bio and a sponge, as well as an airstone since then. The tank had 2 wks to cycle. I did not add any ammonia to feed the bacteria during this period. I also neglected to do any testing as I figured by using DT water I was good to go.

I dosed CP on Sat 6/2 in the AM at the rate of 40mg/gal as I was planning on visiting my LFS that day. Fish were acclimated that afternoon and by Sun. all were eating and looking good. Same on Monday. But Tues AM I noticed that they were less active and lees enthusiastic about food. My Ammonia badge showed yellow but after closer scrutiny I’d say maybe slightly greenish. My Red Sea test kit showed ammonia at approx 1.5-2.0ppm with Nitrates @ about 10ppm and Nitrites at 1ppm. Consultations with R2R members that day here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/page-62 starting with post # 1235

By late afternoon rabbitfish & tang were listing slightly and all 4 looked somewhat distressed. I mixed up 10 gal of fresh saltwater and brought it in from garage to acclimate to QT temperature. Did a 10 gal WC Tues night which lowered Nitrates & Nitrites by about half but ammonia still looked high using Red Sea test. Ammonia badge still yellow w/slight greening but fish perked up considerably. Added another 30ml Dr. Tims.

Wednesday was a bit better. Rabbitfish eating as were flame angel & clown. Tang still a bit slow and while he approached food did not actually eat anything. Made up another 10 gal batch of water and did another WC Wed evening. Added another 50+ml Dr. Tim’s and crossed my fingers

Thurs: Got Seachem MultiTest Ammonia kit and a new ammonia alert badge. New badge now same off yellowish color as old one and MultiTest shows a minimal amount of FREE ammonia (.01-.02). total ammonia in the .15-.20 range.
Really not too confident in color comparison of MultiTest kit. I used their sample which is supposed to come out at 1.0mg/l but it looked to be more gray than greenish blue as on the scale.

Over the weekend: Did another 5 gal WC. continuing to get troubling readings on the Seachem Multitest kit. Called Seachem on Fri to ask about color of test sensor not matching chart and was asked to submit a photo which I did no word back yet. Ammonia alerts still show yellow with a slight green tinge. The Seachem Multitest kit shows 0ppm for free ammonia but total ammonia is off the chart which goes to blue and my sensor is now looking purple. All fish eating except Tang who responds to food being placed in tank but I have not seen him actually eat. He may be eating off bottom after I leave. Bought some Prime on Sunday and added 5ml to 25gal which is double the dosage. Still getting high numbers on Monday.

QUESTIONS:
Could the bacteria have died during that two week period with nothing to eat?
I think I may have too many fish for a 25gal water volume but don’t have any options tank-wise right now. What should I do to keep ammonia under control for the duration of this QT?
Should I add more bacteria?
More water changes
Anyone else experience color discrepancy with Seachem MultiTest?

 

[jasonrusso]

@Humblefish @Dr. Reef
I’m having trouble controlling the ammonia in my 25gal QT. I’ve got 4 fish (sm. sailfin tang, black darwin clown, flame angel and a scribbled rabbitfish) in QT right now.

The tank was filled with water from DT on 5/19 and I added 30ml Dr Time’s One & Only. It has been running with a HOB filter with ceramic bio and a sponge, as well as an airstone since then. The tank had 2 wks to cycle. I did not add any ammonia to feed the bacteria during this period. I also neglected to do any testing as I figured by using DT water I was good to go.

I dosed CP on Sat 6/2 in the AM at the rate of 40mg/gal as I was planning on visiting my LFS that day. Fish were acclimated that afternoon and by Sun. all were eating and looking good. Same on Monday. But Tues AM I noticed that they were less active and lees enthusiastic about food. My Ammonia badge showed yellow but after closer scrutiny I’d say maybe slightly greenish. My Red Sea test kit showed ammonia at approx 1.5-2.0ppm with Nitrates @ about 10ppm and Nitrites at 1ppm. Consultations with R2R members that day here: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/chloroquine-phosphate.192309/page-62 starting with post # 1235

By late afternoon rabbitfish & tang were listing slightly and all 4 looked somewhat distressed. I mixed up 10 gal of fresh saltwater and brought it in from garage to acclimate to QT temperature. Did a 10 gal WC Tues night which lowered Nitrates & Nitrites by about half but ammonia still looked high using Red Sea test. Ammonia badge still yellow w/slight greening but fish perked up considerably. Added another 30ml Dr. Tims.

Wednesday was a bit better. Rabbitfish eating as were flame angel & clown. Tang still a bit slow and while he approached food did not actually eat anything. Made up another 10 gal batch of water and did another WC Wed evening. Added another 50+ml Dr. Tim’s and crossed my fingers

Thurs: Got Seachem MultiTest Ammonia kit and a new ammonia alert badge. New badge now same off yellowish color as old one and MultiTest shows a minimal amount of FREE ammonia (.01-.02). total ammonia in the .15-.20 range.
Really not too confident in color comparison of MultiTest kit. I used their sample which is supposed to come out at 1.0mg/l but it looked to be more gray than greenish blue as on the scale.

Over the weekend: Did another 5 gal WC. continuing to get troubling readings on the Seachem Multitest kit. Called Seachem on Fri to ask about color of test sensor not matching chart and was asked to submit a photo which I did no word back yet. Ammonia alerts still show yellow with a slight green tinge. The Seachem Multitest kit shows 0ppm for free ammonia but total ammonia is off the chart which goes to blue and my sensor is now looking purple. All fish eating except Tang who responds to food being placed in tank but I have not seen him actually eat. He may be eating off bottom after I leave. Bought some Prime on Sunday and added 5ml to 25gal which is double the dosage. Still getting high numbers on Monday.

QUESTIONS:
Could the bacteria have died during that two week period with nothing to eat?
I think I may have too many fish for a 25gal water volume but don’t have any options tank-wise right now. What should I do to keep ammonia under control for the duration of this QT?
Should I add more bacteria?
More water changes
Anyone else experience color discrepancy with Seachem MultiTest?

The badge is just a big version of the ammonia test kit. It should be the same after 30 minutes.

If you are showing ammonia, I would put in a bit of prime. Do you have an airstone? I used a foam filter (it so doubles as an air stone), but I couldn't grow and nitrifying bacteria while the CP was in. It seemed that I grew a colony in 2 days after I added carbon.

 

[PeterG]

The badge is just a big version of the ammonia test kit. It should be the same after 30 minutes.

If you are showing ammonia, I would put in a bit of prime. Do you have an airstone? I used a foam filter (it so doubles as an air stone), but I couldn't grow and nitrifying bacteria while the CP was in. It seemed that I grew a colony in 2 days after I added carbon.

I added Prime yesterday but still show high Ammonia. How long does it take to work?
I have an airstone running as well as a HOB filter with sponge and Seachem Matrix bio-media.
As I said the Badge shows yellow with a hint of green while the ammonia test kit is off the chart on the total ammonia. I'n suspicious of the accuracy of the Multitest kit and am waiting to hear back from Seachem on the photos I sent them.

 

[jasonrusso]

I added Prime yesterday but still show high Ammonia. How long does it take to work?
I have an airstone running as well as a HOB filter with sponge and Seachem Matrix bio-media.
As I said the Badge shows yellow with a hint of green while the ammonia test kit is off the chart on the total ammonia. I'n suspicious of the accuracy of the Multitest kit and am waiting to hear back from Seachem on the photos I sent them.

An ammonia test will still show positive for ammonia when using prime. Prime changes ammonia to ammonium which is less lethal. This probably why the test shows high total ammonia because it is reading the ammonium.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

I've been told that CP will kill pods. I added some amphipods to QT tank dosed with CP @60mg/gal to try and get a fish to eat that wasn't eating. Three weeks later and I still see the pods alive and thriving in the QT tank. The CP is from Diamond Back. And I am still seeing spots on the fish as well. This is my second order of CP from Diamond Back in the last 2 years. I think, but don't remember for sure, the first batch was more of a cornstarch texture and this batch is more of a very crushed up salt texture. After 3 weeks why are the pods still alive and why am I still seeing spots of what looks like ich on the fish? This batch also have expiration date in 5 months and first batch had one year. Any ideas what is going on?

 

[Humblefish]

I've been told that CP will kill pods. I added some amphipods to QT tank dosed with CP @60mg/gal to try and get a fish to eat that wasn't eating. Three weeks later and I still see the pods alive and thriving in the QT tank. The CP is from Diamond Back. And I am still seeing spots on the fish as well. This is my second order of CP from Diamond Back in the last 2 years. I think, but don't remember for sure, the first batch was more of a cornstarch texture and this batch is more of a very crushed up salt texture. After 3 weeks why are the pods still alive and why am I still seeing spots of what looks like ich on the fish? This batch also have expiration date in 5 months and first batch had one year. Any ideas what is going on?

CP is not as harsh on crustaceans as copper, so I'm not really surprised that some of your amphipods are living through it.

How long has it been since you dosed CP and are still seeing spots?

 

[PeterG]

I've been told that CP will kill pods. I added some amphipods to QT tank dosed with CP @60mg/gal to try and get a fish to eat that wasn't eating. Three weeks later and I still see the pods alive and thriving in the QT tank. The CP is from Diamond Back. And I am still seeing spots on the fish as well. This is my second order of CP from Diamond Back in the last 2 years. I think, but don't remember for sure, the first batch was more of a cornstarch texture and this batch is more of a very crushed up salt texture. After 3 weeks why are the pods still alive and why am I still seeing spots of what looks like ich on the fish? This batch also have expiration date in 5 months and first batch had one year. Any ideas what is going on?

I just looked at the jar of CP I got from Diamondback in April and I've have to say the powder is more like cornstarch than very fine salt. It sticks to sides of the plastic measuring spoon and even adheres to a metal knife blade which is what I use to measure out small amounts.
Don't know enough to speak to the issue with that amphipods.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

CP is not as harsh on crustaceans as copper, so I'm not really surprised that some of your amphipods are living through it.

How long has it been since you dosed CP and are still seeing spots?

3 weeks now I first dosed CP

 

[Humblefish]

3 weeks now I first dosed CP

Can you post some photos showing the spots? It might be something other than a parasite.

 

[PeterG]

Was thinking about adding LED lighting to my QT with CP so I contacted Diamondback regarding light sensitivity. Also asked them about Ammonia testing while using CP. Hope I'm not duplicating already established fact.

"I’m using Chloroquine Phosphate in a salt water aquarium quarantine tank. Two Questions:
I heard that that the CP is light sensitive in powdered form. Will LED lighting alter its effectiveness once its in the water?
Will CP affect the results of ammonia test kits?"

Their Reply:
Thank you for reaching out to us. Unfortunately, for this drug there is not a lot of reference materials with respect to your questions. Our certificate of analysis from the lab that tested the chemical for us does say to protect from light. When the lab tests this chemical for us, they do use ultraviolet testing as part of the diagnostics. I would recommend to limit UV light if that is reasonable. As for the ammonia test, you may want to contact the company that produces the test device to see if they have had that question posed to them, or if they have any other data.

Thank you,
Tyler, Pharm. D
Diamondback Drugs

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Can you post some photos showing the spots? It might be something other than a parasite.

Trying to get a picture, but can't get a good one that shows it. I'll keep trying. Spots there for 3 or 4 days then disappears and come back in different spot, so seams like ich to me.

 

[MrsBugmaster]

Can you post some photos showing the spots? It might be something other than a parasite.

First photo the fins on left side and tail are kind of frayed.

Left side, see spots on fin

Left side again spots under/behind fin

 

[Humblefish]

@MrsBugmaster How long have those spots been there?