Copper Resistant Velvet??

2AReefer92

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Hello Everyone! I wish I had a more exciting discussion topic for my first post on R2R but we deal with the hand we are dealt. I recently decided to get back into the hobby after being out of it for almost 10 years (tragic story there). Either way, I decided I wanted to do it 100% the right way this time. I have a brand new Waterbox Reef Pro 180.5 sitting in the garage waiting to be set up. (Build thread?????)



I thought I’d plan ahead and start QT (30 gallon) on the first few fish additions. I started the QT with an observational phase and my 3 fish. A pajama cardinal, shark nose goby, and flame angel. Everything seemed good for the first 7-10 days with the exception of what I thought were a few Ich spots on the goby. Within 36 hours my angel started to display spots and my goby was covered in spots. I was not treating with any medications at this point. I quickly realized this was velvet, not ich. I began working up the copper levels (copper power) in the tank slowly because I saw adverse effects at levels of .5PPM already. I lost the goby on day 2 at 1PPM of copper. Over the course of a week. I have worked the level up to 2.5PPM and even a little above. As of yesterday, I could only find one spot on the angelfish and both the cardinal and angel were eating and energetic. However, today I came home from work to find the angel with about 20-30 very small and almost imperceptible spots. I tested my copper level today at 2.64PPM with the Hanna Copper Checker. The fish are still eating and energetic but I am worried. I don’t want to go any higher with the copper, but I’m not sure it's working. Interestingly, the cardinalfish has not been affected through the whole process. No visual signs of distress or disease. Have I stumbled across a copper resistant form of velvet? Could this be anything other than ich or velvet? Any thoughts on what I should try next?



I did take pictures and have included them but the spots are so tiny that they do not appear well on camera. They are most evident on the fins. Than you in advance everyone! This wasn’t how I was hoping my reintroduction into the hobby would go…..

IMG_1450.jpg IMG_1437 2.jpg
 

Big G

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Welcome back to the salt!

Sorry your return has been so rough. Disease is rampant in the supply chain.

Are you using Copper Power? I know it says to dose to 2.5 but 2.0 is plenty.

Remember the spots are from the parasites dropping off the fish. Copper does not kill velvet until the free swimming stage. The fish has to endure the parasites that are already attached. And velvet has shown resistance all the way up to 1.75 ppm of copper. So those spots may be the residual from the last parasites attacking your fish.

Other possibilities: flukes, Brooklynella, and lymphocystis which is frequent as the fish's immune system is suppressed by the copper.
 
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2AReefer92

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Welcome back to the salt!

Sorry your return has been so rough. Disease is rampant in the supply chain.

Are you using Copper Power? I know it says to dose to 2.5 but 2.0 is plenty.

Remember the spots are from the parasites dropping off the fish. Copper does not kill velvet until the free swimming stage. The fish has to endure the parasites that are already attached. And velvet has shown resistance all the way up to 1.75 ppm of copper. So those spots may be the residual from the last parasites attacking your fish.

Other possibilities: flukes, Brooklynella, and lymphocystis which is frequent as the fish's immune system is suppressed by the copper.
Thank you for the warm welcome! Yes, I am using copper power. So even though the number of spots have increased over the past 24 hours, this may just be the last of the parasites falling off? Interesting. I may wait it out then and see if I observe any changes in the fish's behavior. Thank you for your input!
 

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Might be lymphocystis, either way stay the course, spots will hopefully resolve.

consider dosing metro to cover for brook if you havent already. general cure is fine to dose with copper power
 
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HotRocks

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Thank you for the warm welcome! Yes, I am using copper power. So even though the number of spots have increased over the past 24 hours, this may just be the last of the parasites falling off? Interesting. I may wait it out then and see if I observe any changes in the fish's behavior. Thank you for your input!
Sometimes the spots wont show up until about 24-48 hours after the parasite made entry. So that being said, if you still see new spots showing up after 72hours of the therapeutic level of copper then there is something wrong.

A level of 2.64ppm should be plenty high. Keep us posted. Good luck!
 
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2AReefer92

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Update:

I decided it was best to give the treatment awhile to take effect. I kept the copper high and tested it daily. It stayed right around the original concentration (2.64ppm ish according to the Hanna checker). It seemed that the copper was slowing the progression but not fixing the issue. The angelfish was barely eating and swimming around very slowly. I decided to switch strategies and began tank-transfer method with what I had lying around, which was some 5-gallon buckets, pumps, and heaters. To be consistent and ensure I was staying ahead of the parasitic life cycle, I would transfer the fish every 24 hours for 15 days. It was touch and go for several days but the fish did slowly improve. After 5 or 6 days I could not find any visible indication of parasites. I kept up with the treatment and on day 15 I moved them back to the 30gal QT after a 30min hydrogen peroxide dip (for good measure). So far, I am over two weeks into the observation period with 2 black mollies and no signs of disease are present. Both the cardinalfish and dwarf angel are fat and happy. I THINK I can call this a success now but I'm still troubled to think I might have come across a copper resistant form of velvet. I wouldn't with the ordeal on anyone, especially if this were to happen to an established system. Thank you to everyone for the support. I hope my experiences/findings can be helpful in some way.
 

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