Copper treatment

ReefLab

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No real sensitivity but I got a bunch of fish in a 20 gallon and its totally too small and unnatural. They need to get back into the DT asap. Also, while the lights are usually off, I believe that marine velvet is not photosynthetic. Freshwater velvet is.
“Velvet dinospores can remain infective for up to 15 days, whereas with ich theronts it’s only 48 hours. This is because velvet tomonts and dinospores are both capable of using photosynthesis as a means of obtaining nutrients (remember it is a dinoflagellate).” - HumbleFish
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Keep a sponge filter or air stone running if you can and do water changes daily (predosing the water to the desired level).
 

shoelaceike

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“Velvet dinospores can remain infective for up to 15 days, whereas with ich theronts it’s only 48 hours. This is because velvet tomonts and dinospores are both capable of using photosynthesis as a means of obtaining nutrients (remember it is a dinoflagellate).” - HumbleFish
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/velvet-amyloodinium-ocellatum.217570/

Keep a sponge filter or air stone running if you can and do water changes daily (predosing the water to the desired level).

Thanks. I've definitely come across conflicting info on this. Check out this link. I don't have any ammonia so I dont need to do water changes yet....they are on their fifth day now and I was planning on putting them back in the DT on Sunday.
 

shoelaceike

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shoelaceike

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Well keep in mind, your display needs to be fallow for at least 45days. Did you do anything to get velvet out of the display?

I thought it was 35 days? 20 days max to release and 15 days for dinospores.
 

KevinC

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I have been treating my fish at 2.5ppm copper power for 14 days. My yellow tang is now stressed and hiding in a corner for the last 2 days compare to how it’s normally swimming/exploring . However, it is still quick to grab food. I have done a quick water change, should I maybe remove the yellow tang to another tank with no copper or keep on treatment
 

Jay Hemdal

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I have been treating my fish at 2.5ppm copper power for 14 days. My yellow tang is now stressed and hiding in a corner for the last 2 days compare to how it’s normally swimming/exploring . However, it is still quick to grab food. I have done a quick water change, should I maybe remove the yellow tang to another tank with no copper or keep on treatment
Copper power is well- tolerated in tangs at that dose. How is the fish’s respiration rate? Any other fish in with it? What is the ammonia running?
Jay
 

KevinC

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Copper power is well- tolerated in tangs at that dose. How is the fish’s respiration rate? Any other fish in with it? What is the ammonia running?
Jay
It’s breathing quickly. I have a moorish idol, hippo, clownfish pair, and a royal gramma in it. They have been tank mate prior to QT and there is never any aggression. Ammonia is “safe” on the sea chem ammonia badge
 

Jay Hemdal

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The rapid breathing is worrisome; it can be a symptom of copper toxicity, but also of gill disease. I think the 2.5 weeks of copper should mostly rule out disease, so the other option would be to begin partial water changes to start reducing the copper level.
Jay
 

Staying_Alive

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Cuppramine is an Ionic copper and is believed by some to work better than chelated copper. It's also more harsh to use on the fish and care needs to be taken while using it with some species of fish.

Coppersafe/power is a chelated copper and is reported to be much gentler on the fish. It's still copper and can have side effects like lack of appetite and cause difficulty to sensitive species just like ionic copper can do. I've had better luck at the store with chelated copper and have kept many types of fish in it successfully.

It really comes down to what you have access to and will work better for the fish you are running through QT.
Can I use copper power with 8.4 to raise pH or alkalinity?
 

bencameron27

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This thread is really interesting, thank you for everyone's input. I am about to setup a quarantine as I am setting up a new display in a different part of the house and want to transfer my fish to the new tank. I know there is ich in the other display so I want to use this as as opportunity to treat my fish and make y new display ich free. I plan to use Copper safe as its easy to get here in England and I haven't decided to go with Hanna or Salifert test kit as of yet. My question is, I want to use the liverock from my other display in the new tank, I know I need to leave my other display with no fish in to make this rock safe to transfer but how long for to be 100% safe? I will just set my new display up with dry rock and new sand leaving space for other liverock structure when its ready. When the fish have done their 30 days I will put them in my new display and they should be ICH free right? Can anyone see any issues with this? Thanks in advance.
 

cmoore806

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This thread is really interesting, thank you for everyone's input. I am about to setup a quarantine as I am setting up a new display in a different part of the house and want to transfer my fish to the new tank. I know there is ich in the other display so I want to use this as as opportunity to treat my fish and make y new display ich free. I plan to use Copper safe as its easy to get here in England and I haven't decided to go with Hanna or Salifert test kit as of yet. My question is, I want to use the liverock from my other display in the new tank, I know I need to leave my other display with no fish in to make this rock safe to transfer but how long for to be 100% safe? I will just set my new display up with dry rock and new sand leaving space for other liverock structure when its ready. When the fish have done their 30 days I will put them in my new display and they should be ICH free right? Can anyone see any issues with this? Thanks in advance.
1. Go with the Hanna checker, you'll be happy you did. A reliable test is necessary and its pretty quick. Reading and comparing colors isn't my favorite task.
2. someone else can confirm--Liverock should be fallow in new display for 76 days without fish.
3. Treating fish in QT with copper and observing for disease is a good practice. Its either that or a tank transfer method.
 

josephxsxn

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Agree with above get the HANNA checker for copper hands down.

The fallow period as defined by Humblefish is 76 days based on some scientific papers.. In August there was an update that pushes 45 days so long as you can increase the tank tempature to 80.6f+, with higher being better in terms of purging ich... Theoretically if you have really low oxygen area it still may not hatch. So... If your super risk adverse wait 76 days...


For QT I did metro, copper, prazi. The 3 should cover your bases. Humblefishes site has some good info on using the 3 above medications.
 

Tegridy Reef

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Would u have the answer to this possible i accidently used copper power green instead of blue do u see that being a problem since green says its for freshwater and blue is labled for salt water.
 

Reef Racket

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Cupramine (ionic copper) is "supposed" to be gentler on fish, but we are figuring out that is not true. Just a slick marketing ploy. The old way (chelated) seems to work better. You also have more wiggle room (therapeutic range) with chelated, and there are even anecdotal accounts of being able to use an ammonia reducer with Coppersafe. I still don't recommend doing that though. ;)
Hey humble!!! Thanks so much for the info! I’ve been using your post as my reference for my first time QT. However, I had to pull all my fish from my DT since it was an ongoing problem with either Velvet or Brook. The fish are doing great in the QT with Cupramine and so far not one loss!

My Question is, how long can I keep them in there since I’ve read on your other thread that the DT should remain Fallow for 72 days? Should I slowly start to lower copper levels in QT with water changes once they have reached 30 days of treatment? Or can I leave it at therapeutic levels for future use? Or do I just throw in some carbon on the HOB filter and try to remove as much as possible?

Again, thanks so much for all the help!
 

Reef Racket

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I agree entirely, I have kept fish in copper for nearly 90 days without issue.
The rapid breathing is worrisome; it can be a symptom of copper toxicity, but also of gill disease. I think the 2.5 weeks of copper should mostly rule out disease, so the other option would be to begin partial water changes to start reducing the copper level.
Jay

Maybe you can help me? Not sure if humblefish saw my question...
 

4FordFamily

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Maybe you can help me? Not sure if humblefish saw my question...
Hello,

I'd keep the fish in therapeutic copper for 30 days. Then, remove copper and let the tank run fallow for 76 days. This gives you a buffer for the longest life cycle for ich.

Rapid gill movement could be related to the damage done to the gills of the fish from the parasites, and as @Jay Hemdal said, it could be copper toxicity. I keep cupramine about .5 - .75 ppm (which is on the high end, admittedly) for 30 days unless I transfer the fish to a completely sterile tank (that has shared nothing with the first and is 10 feet away without my hand going in and out of both of them or cross-contaminating) in which case 14 days in copper should suffice.

I hope this helps,

Jason
 

Reef Racket

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Hello,

I'd keep the fish in therapeutic copper for 30 days. Then, remove copper and let the tank run fallow for 76 days. This gives you a buffer for the longest life cycle for ich.

Rapid gill movement could be related to the damage done to the gills of the fish from the parasites, and as @Jay Hemdal said, it could be copper toxicity. I keep cupramine about .5 - .75 ppm (which is on the high end, admittedly) for 30 days unless I transfer the fish to a completely sterile tank (that has shared nothing with the first and is 10 feet away without my hand going in and out of both of them or cross-contaminating) in which case 14 days in copper should suffice.

I hope this helps,

Jason
i guess what im asking is... while the tank is fallow and the 30 days or longer off copper has completed... Should i keep thr QT at therapeutic levels intill the whole 76 days is up in the DT? or should i slowly bring copper down in QT? Also, once complete do the fish have to be acclimated down from copper in general or can i just take them from copper treated water and right to DT ?? (as long as temp and salinity match of course)
 

drstardust

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Hello,

I'd keep the fish in therapeutic copper for 30 days. Then, remove copper and let the tank run fallow for 76 days. This gives you a buffer for the longest life cycle for ich.

Rapid gill movement could be related to the damage done to the gills of the fish from the parasites, and as @Jay Hemdal said, it could be copper toxicity. I keep cupramine about .5 - .75 ppm (which is on the high end, admittedly) for 30 days unless I transfer the fish to a completely sterile tank (that has shared nothing with the first and is 10 feet away without my hand going in and out of both of them or cross-contaminating) in which case 14 days in copper should suffice.

I hope this helps,

Jason
You're using Cupramine these days? I don't think I knew that. I remember you and Kyle being big proponents of Copper Power. Did something change?
 

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