*COPPERSAFE WARNING* along with Research on Hanna Instruments High Range Copper Checker

[Brew12]

Not to my knowledge?

Sure looks that way based on post 1167.

 

[HotRocks]

@Hanna Instruments did you do further testing on the LR model?

I thought it was the consensus that it was best to use the HR model.

FWIW I have a LR model and have done some testing with it. I was getting copper readings on freshly mixed SW that did not have copper dosed into it. The readings were minimal, if I recall up to 75ppb.

 

[tenurepro]

Just adding my experiences jerk coopersafe concentration. I started using the product and testing with the Hanna checker and it also seems like my bottle is more concentrated than the dosing guidelines mentioned in the forum.
Dosing 5 ml In 4 gallons would have resulted in 2.5 ppm copper. It’s a shame that they don’t put lot numbers on the bottles so we can troubleshoot batches of coopersafe

Thanks to the OP for this alert!

 

[Brew12]

The readings were minimal, if I recall up to 75ppb.

Sounds about right. Pretty sure that is close to the copper content of natural sea water.

 

[tenurepro]

Just adding my experiences jerk coopersafe concentration. I started using the product and testing with the Hanna checker and it also seems like my bottle is more concentrated than the dosing guidelines mentioned in the forum.
Dosing 5 ml In 4 gallons would have resulted in 2.5 ppm copper. It’s a shame that they don’t put lot numbers on the bottles so we can troubleshoot batches of coopersafe

Thanks to the OP for this alert!

Not sure how I mixed up ‘with’ and ‘jerk’ above ; I’ll blame the autocorrect

 

[Hanna Instruments]

Thanks but didnt hanna just say the LR is more accurate above?

The Low Range Copper Checker has not been approved for use in seawater.

 

[HotRocks]

The Low Range Copper Checker has not been approved for use in seawater.

Thank you for the clarification!

 

[4FordFamily]

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

 

[Gareth elliott]

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

Food for thought, given the current view of dinoflagellate evolution is that they were protists that engulfed bacteria and added their dna to themselves, theoretically how they gained photosynthesis. Could a modern day velvet organism also gain copper tolerance through heterotrophic channels of Cu-utilizing proteins, like HAH1. Given the reproduction rates, and the positive reinforcement in a copper quarantine, would the hobby be able to unknowingly create said strain.

 

[4FordFamily]

Food for thought, given the current view of dinoflagellate evolution is that they were protists that engulfed bacteria and added their dna to themselves, theoretically how they gained photosynthesis. Could a modern day velvet organism also gain copper tolerance through heterotrophic channels of Cu-utilizing proteins, like HAH1. Given the reproduction rates, and the positive reinforcement in a copper quarantine, would the hobby be able to unknowingly create said strain.

I'd say it is certainly possible. This would be a good discussion point for this thread if you're interested:

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/bad-news-velvet-strain-survives-1-75-ppm-copper.583491/

 

[drawman]

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

Yikes just when you thought velvet already sucked enough.

 

[Sleepydoc]

Yikes just when you thought velvet already sucked enough.

Is it possible to dislike a post?

 

[rkpetersen]

Is it possible to dislike a post?

'thanks but no thanks'

 

[Sashaka]

UPDATE: We have discovered at least one strain of velvet that survives 1.75 PPM copper, we recommend increasing to 2.0PPM to eradicate it.

Dang, I've been using the lower dose since reading the lower dose worked just as well. I have some new fish in copper right now. I'll increase the dose next water change. Would you recommend that I start the timer over or can I just continue at the higher dose? I would have had two weeks left at 1.75. Thanks!

 

[4FordFamily]

Dang, I've been using the lower dose since reading the lower dose worked just as well. I have some new fish in copper right now. I'll increase the dose next water change. Would you recommend that I start the timer over or can I just continue at the higher dose? Thanks!

I’d just continue at higher dose, velvet has a 48 hour life cycle give or take so I’m guessing you’ll be fine. As long as you observe afterward, you should be OK either way. I’m guessing 1.75 is good enough for most applications, it grenaded for us because of the scale — we have a lot of fish at a time. Smaller scale the odds are better in your favor

 

[Sashaka]

I’d just continue at higher dose, velvet has a 48 hour life cycle give or take so I’m guessing you’ll be fine. As long as you observe afterward, you should be OK either way. I’m guessing 1.75 is good enough for most applications, it grenaded for us because of the scale — we have a lot of fish at a time. Smaller scale the odds are better in your favor

That's a relief! Copper is stressful enough without having to add time to the treatment. I'll dose up this Sat., when I do my weekly water change. Thanks for the quick response!

 

[4FordFamily]

That's a relief! Copper is stressful enough without having to add time to the treatment. I'll dose up this Sat., when I do my weekly water change. Thanks for the quick response!

Not a problem! Good luck

 

[ChelseaBidwell]

Anyone who is using coppersafe needs to know the following: There are several of us here at R2R experiencing issues with the concentration of coppersafe lately, Even seasoned veterans @Big G, @4FordFamily to list a couple that I know of. Myself included (without the veteran part). Have also seen mention of a couple other members having the same issue. I am in the early stages of research and results currently. If you are using the product (especially a recently purchased bottle) be very careful and I would highly recommend daily testing as ramping up to your therapeutic target. We are finding the concentration is inconsistent and possibly over 2X the actual baseline (in my situation). Meaning you may reach therapeutic levels prior to dosing the amount instructed on the bottle. This is a friendly heads up, and myself and others will update as we work through this.

I'm also in the very early testing stages of Hanna instruments High Range copper checker (my personal fiasco with coppersafe promted all of this). If you're interested in it, you can go to link below to see what I've found thus far. Start at the post link and follow from there. This appears it may be a wonderful method to get exact results making it much easier for hobbyists to dose and maintian therapudic levels of all types of copper in the QT process.

I welcome any suggestions, questions, comments etc.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/proper-dosing-of-coppersafe.309726/page-7#post-4546538


Edit/Update 3/26/18
Hey I know a lot of you are following this thread. I am creating this just edit as a quick reference for someone who just wants to view the data, as the thread is getting lengthy. I will keep it up to date, and add results as I continue to test, to this first post.

I know some members have also ordered the testers, also look forward to them sharing their findings.

https://hannainst.com/hi702-copper-hr.html

Disclaimer: We are patiently awaiting @Hanna Instruments to conduct their own testing and validate the tester is accurate in saltwater.
My findings seem it is, but they have to do their own research as a company, in order to be able to state publicly it is accurate in the presence of saltwater.


Edit/Update: 5/3/18
Hanna has validated the tester for use in saltwater! Link to post below.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/c...ge-copper-checker.368943/page-49#post-4692650

This is also a link, to a video myself and @4FordFamily created upon request. We made it a true live test by dosing one of my tanks and testing, result was amazing. The video is nothing special, but may help a first time user with a couple little tricks I figured out along the way.



Upcoming this week, I will begin posting results as I dose my current QT, with the product Copper Power. (I had hoped to do this sooner, a few fish I had ordered shipped late!)

Thank you to everyone who has contributed, and suggested on certain types of copper to test etc.

So far I have tested the following products, what I believe to be accurately
Copper Safe
Copper Power
Cupramine
Cuprion
DIY "Old School" Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate Thanks @Humblefish, @Christoph

Below are the very first tests I ran just to see the difference between testing in freshwater and saltwater. My bottle of coppersafe is much more potent than it is supposed to be. You can see the detail on this throughout the thread.


1st test
1gallon RODI, 1.25ml syringe measured coppersafe to match dosing instructions on bottle. Result 2.99ppm

Test 2
Added salt to test 1 bucket, salinity of 1.024. Result 3.03ppm

Hanna states a .05 +/- so even in saltwater test results seem to be very accurate at this point.

Test 3
1gallon RODI with syringe measured 1.475ml of copper power Result 2.53ppm

Test 4
Add salt to salinity of 1.024 of test 3 bucket Result 2.49ppm

For those of you that had inquired. Test works perfectly fine with ionic copper, I tested my cupramine. Dosed to what should have been .50 into freshly mixed saltwater this time. I skipped the fresh test just based on the fact that yesterday's test results didn't seem to vary outside of Hanna's variance for the device of +/- .05 either with or without salt.
Result was .54

I did have a chance to test copper power, in DT water tonight.

A little less consistent. But that could just because I used my wife's measuring cups from the kitchen to take the water from the tank. Quickly while she wasnt paying attention to me. Shhhhhh...
(I never bring anything from my QT room in my unfinished portion of basement anywhere near my DT, which is where my measuring bucket I preformed original tests with is)

Target 2.50
Result 2.42

The following are the tests the coincide with the video @4FordFamily and I made
Took a base test of my 40b QT prior to the test. Reading was .06ppm. less than I initially expected, but given the fact I have topped off the tank since last test it's acceptable. The much more important part of the equation is the dosing.

Base test. .06ppm

I am calling it 40 gallons, if you deduct displacement add back HOB filter, call it 40.
Copper Power. 2.5ppm yeild if dosed at 59ml to 40 gallons. Per manufacturer. They give directions to dose 1oz per 20 gal. 1oz is 29.5ml

2.5ppm/59ml=.042ppm per ml dosed
*4ml dose=.169ppm per 4ml dose.

So base test. .06ppm +.17ppm Dose=23ppm target after dose

Result. Yep. EXACTLY .23ppm
Watch the video.

I even did a re-test afterward for my data I am providing Hanna. It was still well within +/-.05

Backup test. .25ppm

For this test, I used one gallon of saltwater. I dosed 3.8ml of the DIY copper solution. I arrive at that math since I used a gallon of water, roughly 3.8 liters to keep it simple. 1ml per liter should yeild a concentration of 1.0ppm. I ran 3 tests in total. Below you will find the results are indeed another successful trial. Exciting stuff!
PLEASE NOTE: This Homemade Copper Sulfate Pentahydrate Solution has a very tight therapeutic range of .15-.2ppm. DO NOT Dose it at the rate I used for the test, as it would be highly toxic. I was just following recommendations by @Christoph for testing purposes only.

Cuprion Results

I dosed 2 drops to 1 gallon of saltwater. Intsructions read that one drop per gallon will yeild .2ppm.

Again dosing by the drop, and testing small amounts you have to be very precise with the accuracy of the Hanna method.

I know this is not a widely used product but have seen threads where it is the only thing available to some hobbyists. Again will need @Humblefish to elaborate on theraputic level etc.

Target was .4ppm, I ran three tests
Again, as expected accurate and within the +/-.05ppm.

Tips for Using @Hanna Instruments High Range Copper Checker
-Make sure your cuvettes are very clean prior to use. Wash, Rinse and Dry Immediately after each use.
-Make sure the sample water you are testing is free of any debris
-Place the cuvette into the tester the same direction for both the zero reading and the test reading. (Keeping the 10ml marking on the glass facing forward is a good way to accomplish this)
-Tap or swirl the cuvette to remove any air bubbles prior to each time you place into tester
-Make sure your cuvette is completely dry and free of fingerprints each time you place into tester. Handle the cuvette by the lid once clean.
-There is a trick to getting all of the reagent into the cuvette, watch the video on the first post of this thread.

Keep in mind, this really no different than visual test methods. When you add the reagent, it changes the water to various shades of purple. The darker the tint, the higher the copper level. The Tester shines light through the sample and measures the amount of light passing through to provide the digital reading. Anything that can interfere with the process is what you want to prevent. Just food for thought!

Very late, but does anyone know if any medications of any type in the water column interferes with the end result? I can't find anything on meds associated with the Copper Hanna.

 

[HotRocks]

Very late, but does anyone know if any medications of any type in the water column interferes with the end result? I can't find anything on meds associated with the Copper Hanna.

Haha you resurrected my dead thread

What medication are you wondering about?

I have aggressively tested with meds in the water including nitrofurazone and NFG which stains the water heavily. Since the tester takes a baseline zero test you will still get accurate results with the above listed meds.

The way I checked it was take a reading with just copper in the water (3 times to be sure). Add the med that changes water color and test three more times. The results were always within the acceptable range of the tester.

 

[GGonzo]

I know this conversation was a couple 2 or 3 years ago, but has Coppersafe improved their product? I just had a Powder Blue and a Blue Tang in QT using Coppersafe and I almost lost them. I had not even reached therapeutic levels according to my Hanna Checker and when I woke up at 2:30am to check on them they were in terrible shape. My Powder Blue had lost a lot of its color and had stripes going across its body from head to tail and was barely moving. My Blue Tang was covered in a weird coating and laying at the bottom of the tank. I fresh water dipped them to remove as much of the copper as possible and placed them back into my DT.
Here are the best pictures I could get of my Powder Blue, the Blue Tang is easily photographed because this is her preferred position. The Powder Blue is now swimming around and its color is returning.