Could this be the Trident announcement?

[road_runner]

Fanboyism at its best.

Full disclosure: I own 4 apex systems; don't like what I'm seeing here.

Wait for real reviews from customers. Filter out beta users reviews as they are inherently biased by definition and by legal contracts..

 

[Thales]

Wait for real reviews from customers. Filter out beta users reviews as they are inherently biased by definition and by legal contracts..

Oh dear. Somehow you think beta testers are obligated to come onto forums and argue about products even if they don't like them? That seems really strange.

 

[MnFish1]

Why doesn't your fridge, your freezer, the heater in your tank only run once a day? Because it is required to run more often to work properly. The Trident is no different. You can choose how many times to test your tank by not buying a Trident, it's as simple as that. The trident has to run 4 times a day based on the reagents and water in the lines in order to work properly and accurately. Don't like it, don't buy one but it's not going to change because you don't want to test that often. It has a minimum number of times to run and a minimum cost per month.

With due respect - the reason that the refrigerator, etc needs to work more than once a day is not to maintain the machine - the reason is that it needs to run more than once a day to perform the function its designed to do (i.e. cool or heat).

The Trident is different - in that - (the poster) doesn't feel he needs to check his alk or whatever 4 times/day but the trident forces him to. Its like you trying to set your refrigerator for 40 degrees and the refrigerator cooling to 33 degrees 'because it has to to work'. Having said that - my only problem was your analogy - not your point - which is that the product is what it is - for the reasons Neptune has stated repeatedly - thats just the way it is :)

 

[MnFish1]

That’s because BRS jumped the gun and made them available about 15 minutes early. I managed to get one.


FYI, BRS showed 60 in stock when I placed my order.

The funny thing is that I signed up for the we will email you when they are in stock' - that didnt happen:( - but its probably a computer thing. I wasn't going to jump right in - but I did want to know when they were in stock.

 

[road_runner]

Oh dear. Somehow you think beta testers are obligated to come onto forums and argue about products even if they don't like them? That seems really strange.

That's not what I said.
Beta users are obligated not to bash product they tested or talk about bugs they reported. So referring to a beta user rave about the product is biased at best.
Now in this case, and given that neptun is relatively small operation, it's safe to assume that their beta users are local reefers who are active in the hobby, so you cannot expect them not to comment on forums.
Otherwise how do you explain all these experince from users who have not got their trident yet..it was only released midnight....
Btw I run hardware development for very popular consumer devices and I have thousands if beta users all around the world. So believe me I know what am talking about.

 

[BZOFIQ]

... The device needs a minimum number of tests a day to work properly over time. You seem to understand the concept, so I am confused what you are actually on about. Help me understand.

It's simple Rich. I don't test for alk 4 times a day currently, don't see the need to do so in the future -I want options. I bought into apex more than a decade ago because it gave me options.

If I want to test once a day or once every two days and the Trident can't do that I'd love an explanation as to why.

What I don't need is comparisons to freezers and refrigerators - I "graduated" kindergarten some decades ago.

 

[MnFish1]

Everyone keeps restating the fact it has to test 4x/day to function properly. Is there any more specific detail for this requirement?

I'm not sure it would make sense to try and make dosing adjustments based on tests spaced hours apart. Wouldn't that cause parameters to bounce around much more drastically than if testing 1x/day or more and letting things drift a bit with safer dosing correction?

Seems like this will be one of the things that will be discovered after people use it 'in real life'. My guess would be that though its testing you could figure out a way to program such that it only acted on one of the results (for example - the latest reading of the day, etc. I apologize if this has been answered - but is it possible to time the 4x daily measurements - or are they always evenly spaced (also - if you're doing 8 measurements, etc)

 

[Demonic]

It's simple Rich. I don't test for alk 4 times a day currently, don't see the need to do so in the future -I want options. I bought into apex more than a decade ago because it gave me options.

If I want to test once a day or once every two days and the Trident can't do that I'd love an explanation as to why.

What I don't need is comparisons to freezers and refrigerators - I "graduated" kindergarten some decades ago.

They have explained that a few times in threads. It has to do with calibrations, I'm sure you can call or email and they will go more in depth. I dont think Terence is going to keep answering the same questions on here.

And the remarks regarding being sent in...
It's like having a torque wrench or another tool that has to be precise, that tool needs to be sent in annually to be PMEL'd.

 

[Thales]

That's not what I said.

Thanks for the clarifications!

Beta users are obligated not to bash product they tested or talk about bugs they reported. So referring to a beta user rave about the product is biased at best.

NSI beta testers were released from their contracts yesterday.

Btw I run hardware development for very popular consumer devices and I have thousands if beta users all around the world. So believe me I know what am talking about.

Great, but you don't run the Neptune NSI or know what the contract says.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there can be bias, but not that there is always bias.

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for the nice words.
If I didn't think it was great, I wouldn't be saying anything about it, I certainly wouldn't be defending it. I have been given lots of products that suck, and I don't defend them. This product is everything I have ever wanted in an alk testing device and more and I don't have one for the coral lab, but will be likely buying one in the new fiscal year.
But, I am not sure what that has to do with what I am talking to you about. The device needs a minimum number of tests a day to work properly over time. You seem to understand the concept, so I am confused what you are actually on about. Help me understand.

I want to thank you @Thales for 1 - doing the testing and 2 reporting on the results and 3 responding to the questions - that goes for the other beta testers as well. (I still do not think the refrigerator is a good analogy:))

 

[MnFish1]

Is anyone else having posts show up repeatedly on multiple pages? Only asking because I've asked questions that were already answered - but I didnt see them - then when I went back in the thread there they were?

 

[road_runner]

Thanks for the clarifications!



NSI beta testers were released from their contracts yesterday.



Great, but you don't run the Neptune NSI or know what the contract says.

Don't get me wrong, I agree that there can be bias, but not that there is always bias.

Yup I do not work for Neptune hence I only share my experince.
I will say this, if Neptune truly do not have legal obligation on beta testers not to share their experince during the beta testing and bug reporting then there is a big problem in my openion.
Beta user is biased user whether you like it or not. Which is not a bad thing...
All what I said is: wait for real users before you judge.
I do not remember anyone complaint about the fmm and atk when it was first released...
Power of forums my friend..

 

[Thales]

Yup I do not work for Neptune hence I only share my experince.

Totally appreciated.

I will say this, if Neptune truly do not have legal obligation on beta testers not to share their experince during the beta testing and bug reporting then there is a big problem in my openion.

They did. That part of the process seems to be over.

Beta user is biased user whether you like it or not. Which is not a bad thing...
All what I said is: wait for real users before you judge.

I'd like to think that my track record gives me some cred in this area, though I am a big fan of being healthy skeptical.

Power of forums my friend..

Sure, and the terror of the forums as well!

 

[road_runner]

Totally appreciated.

They did. That part of the process seems to be over.

I'd like to think that my track record gives me some cred in this area, though I am a big fan of being healthy skeptical.

Sure, and the terror of the forums as well!

Ha ha. Man do not let me ruin your day. That's not my intention. Total respect for you.

 

[User1]

Only if you are trying to, or accidentally, make big changes. It is really cool to see how long it takes for a 'correction' to reflect and balance through the entire system.

These are the little things that are actually the main reason to get such a item as the trident. Data is beautiful and your comment is why the unit is special. You have an automated test that is reliable, at least I think it is based on what the testers have reported and what I read, throughout the day. Then the data is logged. You can see visually over time how some action has an effect on your reef tank. During the live stream they showed a great example of the chart then all of a sudden a massive change - they said oh, that was when I did a water change. It is visible.

I'm probably not clearly explaining this very well but big data or visually representing an automated test is something you can't put a price on. Simply put if you say an hour of your time is $30 dollars multiple that times the amount of time it takes to manually run the same number of tests then document, and graph you probably already spent enough money to refill the regents. Do that a couple times a week and now you just paid for the service.

While the unit isn't something that I think my tank is ready for the fact that a change can be seen, visually, is worth its weight in gold. Just picking up on your bit about "really cool to see" and "correction".

 

[Thales]

Ha ha. Man do not let me ruin your day. That's not my intention. Total respect for you.

No worries! Thanks for the discussion!

 

[Thales]

It's simple Rich. I don't test for alk 4 times a day currently, don't see the need to do so in the future -I want options. I bought into apex more than a decade ago because it gave me options.

If I want to test once a day or once every two days and the Trident can't do that I'd love an explanation as to why.

What I don't need is comparisons to freezers and refrigerators - I "graduated" kindergarten some decades ago.

Great. So you want something more than because that is how it works - that seems to be - because there is always fluid in the lines, in order to get the stated precision, this is the minimum test frequency.

It was a bit of a bummer for me that you were tossing out my credibility, but whatevs.

 

[TTNuge]

Seems like this will be one of the things that will be discovered after people use it 'in real life'. My guess would be that though its testing you could figure out a way to program such that it only acted on one of the results (for example - the latest reading of the day, etc. I apologize if this has been answered - but is it possible to time the 4x daily measurements - or are they always evenly spaced (also - if you're doing 8 measurements, etc)

They stated the times are fixed. I think they discussed it around the 46 min mark in the video.

 

[road_runner]

No worries! Thanks for the discussion!

Rich am intersted in knowing if you really think its useful testing ca and mag 4 times a day.. I have seen you in many talks where you advocate for less tinkering and how testing industry have pushed users to tinker alot. I remember you referenced Triton icp once..
Am suprised you do not see it overkill to test mag and ca 4 times a day...
I see the value of alk testing 4 times a day but mag and ca??

 

[Vahanyos]

A lot of people talking crap about price, and what it costs to maintain it, etc... This is a LUXURY! If you can afford it, it's the only thing out on the market that does AUTO testing for you. As long as it does what it is intended to do, there's no need to talk crap about the price of it. Let's wait for another company to release the same type of thing and then maybe we'll have a debate on how much they should really cost.

You don't buy a Ferrari and complain about the price to maintain it...