Current Quarantine Protocol

[Jay Hemdal]

Jay and Brew

questions: Is there any list of copper sensitive fish for example pygmy angelfish? How to deal with these kind of fish while handling prophylactic treatment with Copperpower?

What if, ICH is observed in the DP, is putting all the fish into the QT and undergo 30 days copper treatment and leave the DT fishless for 76 days is the best measure to get rid of ICH? I understand the life cycle of ICH and I observed ICH once in my DT, however, there is no symptoms (white spot) for all 10 of my fish, only two scratches on the side of the tank, none of them lose their appetite. Do I still have to do what I mentioned above?

Thx!!!

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I use Coppersafe on all fish except flashlight fish and haven’t had any toxicity issues. Copper Power is reportedly similar but I have NOT tested it on as many fish. Cupramine seems to be stronger and has more side effects. Copper/citric acid formulations are the ones that some fish, like Pygmy angels don’t tolerate well.
What you outlined is the standard method to remove ich from a tank. If it goes away on its own, you are doing something called ich management. It will sometimes come back on its own, especially when you add a new fish. That said, sometimes people see spots on fish that actually isn’t it.
Jay

 

[Auphoenix43]

2021 Quarantine Procedures

Jay Hemdal
David Scarborough



Protozoans (Cryptocaryon/ich, Amyloodinium/velvet) and Metazoan trematodes/flukes are the most common parasites found on newly acquired fish. A carefully managed quarantine process can effectively eliminate these parasites before adding the fish to your display tank.

Quarantine tank Requirements:

Tank must be large enough to comfortably handle the number and size of fish for up to 9 weeks.

• Tank should have a filtration system that has completed the nitrogen cycle. Canisters, HOB overflow filters, or appropriately sized sponge filters are acceptable.
• The filtration system must not use carbon or other absorbing/adsorbing filtrants (e.g. Polyfilter) that might absorb copper or medication. NO calcareous rock LIVE or DEAD
• Bare bottom should be used. A saucer with non-absorbing sand can be utilized for wrasses, gobies, blennies or other species which are overly stressed by the bare bottom. Painting the underside of the tank black can also help
• Heater/thermometer
• Removable structure, e.g. PVC pipe may be used to provide hiding places for the fish.
• Ambient light will often be adequate for the QT tank.
• A means to maintain oxygen levels should be available. Air stones and sponge filters are usually adequate.
• A lid should be used to prevent the fish from jumping out of the tank.
• Set salinity level and temperature to the same levels as in your Display Tank.

Days 1 – 2: Observation - let the fish settle in and determine proper diet.

• Set QT temperature to 78 - 80 degrees F.
• Acclimate the new fish to the QT:
  • Measure salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Adjust salinity in QT to within 2 ppt of the salinity of the water in which the fish arrived.
  • Acclimate the fish to the QT gradually over 45 minutes.
• Observe the fish for any symptoms which might influence the treatment(s) you should administer.
• Determine if the fish are eating adequately to proceed.

Day 2: Begin Copper Treatment

• Add Coppersafe to the QT to achieve a concentration of 2.50 ppm over the course of 24 hours. This can be done in two doses 12 hours apart or multiple smaller doses if you prefer. Coppersafe will not be effective until a concentration over 2.0 ppm is present. A target of 2.50 ppm will allow for fluctuations without the risk of falling below the 2.0 ppm threshold. Hanna Copper checker is the most accurate test to use.
• Never use ammonia removing products or other reducing agents (dechlorinator) when dosing copper. Most products bind copper with an amine to reduce toxicity to the fish. Reducing agents break that bond, releasing free copper that can harm the fish.
• Feed and top off tank water normally.

Days 3 – 32: Continue Copper Treatment

• Monitor copper ppm regularly. If fluctuations do not occur, you can skip day(s), but if the concentration falls below 2.0 ppm, you will need to restart the 30-day count for the copper treatment.
• Monitor water quality parameters as you would for your display tank.
• If the copper or ammonia levels ever exceed guidelines, be prepared to administer water changes to correct the problem.

Day 34: Copper Done

• Begin copper removal through water changes.
• Zeolites such as Cuprisorb may be used to hasten the removal process.
• Carbon is usually too slow or ineffective at removing copper and should not be relied upon without adequate monitoring.

Day 35: Praziquantel Treatment #1

• Confirm copper has been removed adequately to drop the concentration to less than 1 ppm. Copper and Prazi should not be administered simultaneously.
• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label.
• Ensure the additional oxygenation source is working. This treatment will potentially reduce the oxygen levels within the QT to critical levels without additional air flow.

Day 40, Day 47: Praziquantel Treatment #2, #3

• Add Prazipro to the QT per the instructions on the label, 7 days apart.

Day 60: New Fish QT complete

• Observe fish for 2 weeks after last prazi dose. Note: many public aquariums do not move fish out of quarantine unless they are in the middle of a full copper treatment. This vastly reduces the risk from Cryptocaryon or Amyloodinium. To use that method, substitute a copper treatment for this 2 week observation period, and move the fish out around day 10.
• Conduct a 5-minute fresh water dip if the fish is of a species particularly susceptible to Neobenedenia flukes. If flukes are detected, reduce QT salinity to 50% and hold for an additional 35 days.
• Confirm salinity and temperature of QT and DT are the same, add fish to DT.

Hi Jay,
Could I use an all in one tank for my quarantine tank and have that tank filter instead of a couple of HOB filters?
Thanks

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Hi Jay,
Could I use an all in one tank for my quarantine tank and have that tank filter instead of a couple of HOB filters?
Thanks

Welcome to Reef2Reef!

I'm not sure, depends on your all-in-one set up. What does it have in terms of media for biofiltration? I think it will be fine, but this method really requires a stable biofilter before starting to QT fish.

Jay

 

[Brew12]

Hi Jay,
Could I use an all in one tank for my quarantine tank and have that tank filter instead of a couple of HOB filters?
Thanks

One thing to keep in mind is that AIO's are harder to disinfect/completely dry if you are going to be doing multiple batches. If you don't plan on disinfecting between batches (good practice but not required imo) this doesn't matter.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

One thing to keep in mind is that AIO's are harder to disinfect/completely dry if you are going to be doing multiple batches. If you don't plan on disinfecting between batches (good practice but not required imo) this doesn't matter.

I'm not an advocate for sterilizing QT between batches - UNLESS there was an incident with some uncontrolled disease. The reasoning is that if there are any pathogens lurking about, the fish that were released are much stronger fomites than the tank itself, so the "horse is out of the barn" in that regard. I'm also a strong proponent for well-cycled QT, and keeping them running is a good way to accomplish that. Of the 15 or so QT I'm managing, we've only sterilized one in the past six years - it had some Gulf of Mexico fish in it that had an unidentifiable disease that killed them all off over 6 months.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

I'm not an advocate for sterilizing QT between batches - UNLESS there was an incident with some uncontrolled disease. The reasoning is that if there are any pathogens lurking about, the fish that were released are much stronger fomites than the tank itself, so the "horse is out of the barn" in that regard. I'm also a strong proponent for well-cycled QT, and keeping them running is a good way to accomplish that. Of the 15 or so QT I'm managing, we've only sterilized one in the past six years - it had some Gulf of Mexico fish in it that had an unidentifiable disease that killed them all off over 6 months.

Jay

This is interesting! I hate sterilizing my tanks, but I read that prazi and metro are susceptible to degradation from bacteria. They say to sterilize every 2-3 batches which is honestly so annoying. I just sterilized my tank and now I’m reading this. I feel dumb to say the least. I hate cycling QT!!!

 

[Brew12]

This is interesting! I hate sterilizing my tanks, but I read that prazi and metro are susceptible to degradation from bacteria. They say to sterilize every 2-3 batches which is honestly so annoying. I just sterilized my tank and now I’m reading this. I feel dumb to say the least. I hate cycling QT!!!

Prazi breaks down quickly regardless and he doesn't prophylactically recommend Metro which I think is fantastic.
As hobbyists, we probably QT fewer fish per batch and are less qualified to identify a proper cause of death. I'd still be tempted to break down and sanitize a QT if no fish survived the process if I wasn't confident of the cause of death. Not terribly uncommon if you QT one fish at a time, which I did a few times.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is interesting! I hate sterilizing my tanks, but I read that prazi and metro are susceptible to degradation from bacteria. They say to sterilize every 2-3 batches which is honestly so annoying. I just sterilized my tank and now I’m reading this. I feel dumb to say the least. I hate cycling QT!!!

You bring up a VERY good point! I missed that, as I don't use prazi as much any more. Multiple prazi treatments will REQUIRE that a tank be stripped and restarted in order to kill off the prazi-eating bacteria. Thanks for catching that.

This bacteria can remain active for months if not years. It got so bad for me that I've switched over to hyposalinity for all of my fluke treatments...

I still suggest Prazipro here because the typical home aquarist isn't running it enough times to get the bacteria really cooking.


Jay

 

[Brew12]

You bring up a VERY good point! I missed that, as I don't use prazi as much any more. Multiple prazi treatments will REQUIRE that a tank be stripped and restarted in order to kill off the prazi-eating bacteria. Thanks for catching that.

This bacteria can remain active for months if not years. It got so bad for me that I've switched over to hyposalinity for all of my fluke treatments...

I still suggest Prazipro here because the typical home aquarist isn't running it enough times to get the bacteria really cooking.


Jay

I'm a bit surprised by this. I was under the impression that Prazi did most of what it needed to in the first few hours. Is that not the case?

 

[Miami Reef]

You bring up a VERY good point! I missed that, as I don't use prazi as much any more. Multiple prazi treatments will REQUIRE that a tank be stripped and restarted in order to kill off the prazi-eating bacteria. Thanks for catching that.

This bacteria can remain active for months if not years. It got so bad for me that I've switched over to hyposalinity for all of my fluke treatments...

I still suggest Prazipro here because the typical home aquarist isn't running it enough times to get the bacteria really cooking.


Jay

You do hypo for 1 month for flukes? Then you do copper for 1 month? So your QT runs about 2+ months?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

You do hypo for 1 month for flukes? Then you do copper for 1 month? So your QT runs about 2+ months?

Actually longer. Minimum 30 days in coppersafe, 35 days hypo (plus time in and out of that) Plus at least two weeks of observation. The reason? My tropical marine system has elasmobranchs and bony fishes, so I can’t use copper or hypo should anything ever get in. More than a quarter of a million dollars in fish….there is no way I can risk them just to add another $1000 of new fish in a hurry.

That said, while you are well aware that I advocate for long quarantine periods for home aquariums, I don’t expect people to follow my own method.

Still, I never understand rushing quarantine - you own and can enjoy the fish in QT, why the rush to get it into the DT? Personally, I enjoy having fish in QT where I can observe and learn about them better.

Jay

 

[Miami Reef]

Actually longer. Minimum 30 days in coppersafe, 35 days hypo (plus time in and out of that) Plus at least two weeks of observation. The reason? My tropical marine system has elasmobranchs and bony fishes, so I can’t use copper or hypo should anything ever get in. More than a quarter of a million dollars in fish….there is no way I can risk them just to add another $1000 of new fish in a hurry.

That said, while you are well aware that I advocate for long quarantine periods for home aquariums, I don’t expect people to follow my own method.

Still, I never understand rushing quarantine - you own and can enjoy the fish in QT, why the rush to get it into the DT? Personally, I enjoy having fish in QT where I can observe and learn about them better.

Jay

I actually did further recollection and made a decision to quarantine for 30 days instead of 14+ transfer. Less risk with possible transferring of tomonts and more reliable.

I am in no rush to get fish out of QT. I do enjoy my fish. The only part that makes me “anxious” is that my ammonia badge is showing 0.05ppm. Is that going to kill my fish? I’m really worried especially because I can’t dose prime (doesn’t control ammonia)

 

[Jay Hemdal]

I actually did further recollection and made a decision to quarantine for 30 days instead of 14+ transfer. Less risk with possible transferring of tomonts and more reliable.

I am in no rush to get fish out of QT. I do enjoy my fish. The only part that makes me “anxious” is that my ammonia badge is showing 0.05ppm. Is that going to kill my fish? I’m really worried especially because I can’t dose prime (doesn’t control ammonia)

I wish there was a good hobbyist grade ammonia test….the API kit isn’t very good, and I’ve had issues with the Seachem badges reading properly at low levels. I wonder if your 0.05 reading is just an artifact? I don’t like to use ammonia removers with copper (certainly never Cupramine).
Dr. Tim’s bacteria is an option if you think the biofilter isn’t fully operational.
Jay

 

[jkobel]

Is there a safe and effective way to control ammonia in QT? I have a powder brown that I’m treating for ich but it’s becoming hard to keep up with water changes. Can we use something like a Fritz9 to control the ammonia?

 

[mike89t]

Is there a safe and effective way to control ammonia in QT? I have a powder brown that I’m treating for ich but it’s becoming hard to keep up with water changes. Can we use something like a Fritz9 to control the ammonia?

I saturated a sponge filter with Fritz turbostart 900 to start the cycle on my QT. Took my tank about 2 weeks to complete the cycle.

 

[threebuoys]

Is there a safe and effective way to control ammonia in QT? I have a powder brown that I’m treating for ich but it’s becoming hard to keep up with water changes. Can we use something like a Fritz9 to control the ammonia?

Bacteria in a Bottle products usually takes too long to cycle a tank to be effective in an emergency.

A QT requires a cycled filtration system in order to process ammonia into nitrates. Live rock is not an alternative since the rock will absorb copper from the water column.

You can use an inside the tank, HOB, canister, or appropriately size sponge filter. The media within the filter should have as much surface area as possible for the ammonia processing bacteria to adhere to. My preference is 30 ppi foam.

If you have a sump for your display tank, keep some foam in it for several weeks and it will become populated with the bacteria naturally. You can then use that foam in the QT filter. You can keep extra foam in the sump so it will be available for emergency QT tank setup if needed.

If you keep a QT running continuously, once cycled it will remain effective with no additional modifications or additives required.

 

[jkobel]

Bacteria in a Bottle products usually takes too long to cycle a tank to be effective in an emergency.

A QT requires a cycled filtration system in order to process ammonia into nitrates. Live rock is not an alternative since the rock will absorb copper from the water column.

You can use an inside the tank, HOB, canister, or appropriately size sponge filter. The media within the filter should have as much surface area as possible for the ammonia processing bacteria to adhere to. My preference is 30 ppi foam.

If you have a sump for your display tank, keep some foam in it for several weeks and it will become populated with the bacteria naturally. You can then use that foam in the QT filter. You can keep extra foam in the sump so it will be available for emergency QT tank setup if needed.

If you keep a QT running continuously, once cycled it will remain effective with no additional modifications or additives required.

This is helpful and once I’m past this I plan to keep QTs up and running.

what options are there in an emergency to keep ammonia in check?

 

[Jay Hemdal]

This is helpful and once I’m past this I plan to keep QTs up and running.

what options are there in an emergency to keep ammonia in check?

Water changes are the safest way to reduce ammonia in a tank being treated with copper. Better still of course is to only use tanks with fully cycled systems as quarantine tanks.

Using ammonia reducing compounds (Amquel, Prime, etc.) are risky - all three main copper medications bind copper with amines (ammonia bases). The worry is that adding ammonia reducers can break that bond, releasing free copper in high amounts, poisoning the fish. We know this is an issue with Cupramine, but it may also be with Coppersafe and Copper Power. It isn't an issue with copper/citric acid formulations.

Jay

 

[tbs246]

I’m treating 2 tomato clowns in a qt. using Copper Power. Suspected ich. I had been using the API copper test kit, but the results were coming up in the yellow family, whereas the chart is more in the orange family. Based on hue, I estimated copper to be at about 2.0. I was gradually increasing copper in an attempt to reach 2.50 ppm. I just bought the Hanna H1702 copper tester and it is showing 4.70 ppm. That’s very high. Has anyone experienced this? Does anyone know if the Hanna tester shows inaccurately high ppm levels?

 

[threebuoys]

I've found the Hanna Tester to be accurate, but no way to really tell unless you have a third testing device to compare.

If you believe your dosage was consistent with the instructions, the Hanna tester could be at fault

Copper Power instructions are to add one ounce per gallon of water.

How does the procedure you followed compare to that? I've found the instructions to be pretty reliable for this product.

How did you estimate the volume of water? Often, the actual amount of water is less than that advertised. you can calculate the amount based on ( (L x W x H) /231) minus volume of rock, plus volume of external filtration