Cycle won't complete with the Dr. Tim's Method

[BeanAnimal]

Cycle umpire audit incoming unrequested lol

I am going to address this again as well.

1 - your constant rhetoric serves as a direct request for confrontation. You beg to be argued with — yet you run away and use the ignore feature to avoid having to actually defend yourself.

2 -posting controversial statements, reframing comments and entire threads, cherry picking partial truths and exaggerating statistics and claims invites your comments to be “audited”.

3 - this is a public thread where the OP openly asked for help, everyone was invited. You are not the authority on this subject by any stretch of the imagination. In fact, it is my opinion that you are rather unqualified and spread more misinformation and than fact and create confusion where that’s been decades of clarity.

Understood. I will not add anymore ammonia. I will let it get consumed. and do a 75% water change as recommended. I will update again in the next few days.

Sounds like a plan. Don’t fret too much over the water change. The main goal here is to simply verify that ammonia is headed from where it was toward zero. It does not have to read zero. That said, don’t be an a hurry to do anything — slow wins the race in reef keeping.

 

[KrisReef]

The "good stuff" had its share of issues also. The die off was significant by the time it reached most of us and there was typically a good bit of cleanup or "cooking" that had to be done. It was common for people to "cook" the rock in big bins with a skimmer and heater for a few weeks to remove the mess.

I miss that smell of the live rock cooking in a reefers kitchen.

Many folks are air freighting the rock wet so the die offs we used to see from Rock wrapped in damp foreign newsprint isn’t as spectacular or awful as back in those good old days.

I think Walt Smith would pre-cook his rock in Fiji before it shipped (dry?) airfreight to LA and from there to stores and reefers all over the lower 48.

Modern (damp or wet) shipments sometimes bring live corals that survive the low tide trip from there to here. These rocks are expensive but fun and amazing as well as beneficial to start a reef with.

 

[BeanAnimal]

Long before there was live rock in boxes - there was dead coral skeletons.

My first FO tank was crushed coral UGF and coral skeletons… and a few plastic plants and a ceramic hut and bubbling treasure chest with swinging lid.

 

[BeanAnimal]

I miss that smell of the live rock cooking in a reefers kitchen.

Many folks are air freighting the rock wet so the die offs we used to see from Rock wrapped in damp foreign newsprint isn’t as spectacular or awful as back in those good old days.

My first Fiji and Tonga was leftover stuff that sat in the damp boxes for a week during setup and tear down when we hosted MACNA. The stink was palpable. They shipped a few pallets of the stuff to the show so that the vendors could use it for setup.

 

[KrisReef]

With Kris one never knows lol:). and I was joking - but I thought It was interesting to see he was a real doctor

Yup, there are a lot of formally educated people who support the hobby. And there are many life experienced hobbyists who also know a few degrees worth of stuff from being in our hobby.

Me, I’m probably closer to a shaman functionally, but I have been to the library back in the old days

 

[klvnnunez]

Hi guys,

These discussions are great to witness. I'm gaining some knowledge from them, but a the same time, it's taking away from the thread as I'm losing directions of what to do with cycling of the tank.

I have tested today, ammonia and nitrite are still the same as yesterday at .25/.50 and .2 respectively. Can someone here be clear and precise as what steps I need to make going forward.

Thanks in advance

 

[MnFish1]

For the OP - sorry we've gotten off track. But hopefully you learned there are several ways to 'skin a cat' - however in the end the results are the same. I don't mean this as criticism so please don't take it that way. IMHO, the key to nearly everything we do in reefing (where there are protocols involved) is to pick one and follow it to the letter - whether it's cycling, QT or adding fish etc. Part of the issue here is that multiple things were being done while cycling your tank. (adding ammonia multiple times, adding fish food, etc etc). I understand the potential reasons why you did this - so again please don't take what I'm saying above as personal - except to say - I think that the advice will serve you well with your reefing career, and good luck with your new tank!

 

[MnFish1]

Hi guys,

These discussions are great to witness. I'm gaining some knowledge from them, but a the same time, it's taking away from the thread as I'm losing directions of what to do with cycling of the tank.

I have tested today, ammonia and nitrite are still the same as yesterday at .25/.50 and .2 respectively. Can someone here be clear and precise as what steps I need to make going forward.

Thanks in advance

This is what I would do.

1. I would stop adding ammonia, bacteria, fish food, etc. (the bacteria in the tank will not die off)
2. I would stop measuring ammonia, and nitrite (or at least stop doing things to the tank based on those tests). Unless they are in toxic range - with nitrite you will not see 'toxic ranges' in saltwater. For ammonia, you can also use a calculator (Hamza reef has a list of several) convert your total NH4 to NH3 (which is the toxic form).
3. I would Put back in your carbon, etc and other filtering materials today
4. I would keep the tank running 'as is' for 3-4 days.
5. I would check nitrate and if it is above a range you want - You can change some water. (again there are calculators available on Hamza Reef)
6. Then I would slowly start adding livestock - since I don't know your tank size (or don't remember) and don't know your rock situation (a picture of your tank and filter system would help). And I mean really slowly - like a pair of clowns. (again depending on your tank size)

If you're feeling anxious, go ahead and check your ammonia when you check your nitrate. And give an update. Note - there are many people (myself included) who add bottled bacteria and fish on day one - and completely skip all of this - however, since you've added ammonia, etc etc - I would finish the protocol as much as you can - and go from there.

I'm sure there will be other opinions. This is what I would do.

 

[klvnnunez]

This is what I would do.

1. I would stop adding ammonia, bacteria, fish food, etc. (the bacteria in the tank will not die off)
2. I would stop measuring ammonia, and nitrite (or at least stop doing things to the tank based on those tests). Unless they are in toxic range - with nitrite you will not see 'toxic ranges' in saltwater. For ammonia, use a calculator (Hamza reef has a list of several) convert your total NH4 to NH3 (which is the toxic form).
3. I would Put back in your carbon, etc and other filtering materials today
4. I would keep the tank running 'as is' for 3-4 days.
5. I would check nitrate and if it is above a range you want - You can change some water.
6. Then I would slowly start adding livestock - since I don't know your tank size (or don't remember) and don't know your rock situation (a picture of your tank and filter system would help). And I mean really slowly - like a pair of clowns. (again depending on your tank size)

If you're feeling anxious, go ahead and check your ammonia when you check your nitrate. And give an update. Note - there are many people (myself included) who add bottled bacteria and fish on day one - and completely skip all of this - however, since you've added ammonia, etc etc - I would finish the protocol as much as you can - and go from there.

I'm sure there will be other opinions. This is what I would do.

Thank you @MnFish1

I have stopped adding ammonia, I will let whatever is in the tank get comsumed by the bacteria or do a water change (whatever you recommend best). I have since put back the carbon, turned on the skimmer and filter pad. As of now, ammonia .25, nitrite is .2 and nitrate 2

Here's my setup and some picture

Equipment:
30G Tank: 31.5" x 13.8" x 15.7 (Drilled, one overflow and one return).
Skimmer: Bubble Magus Curve 3 Extreme
Heater: Schego 150W (Titanium)
Heater Controller: Inkbird ITC 308S
Return pump: Jecod Jebao DCP 2500
Powerhead 1 (Main): Jecod Jebao DMP 40
Powerhead 2: Jecod Jebao DMP 10
Glass Cleaner: Flipper Mini
Sump: 10 Gallons
Light: None yet
20 LB of Marco Rocks
1" Sand bed crushed corals

 

[BeanAnimal]

Hi guys,

These discussions are great to witness. I'm gaining some knowledge from them, but a the same time, it's taking away from the thread as I'm losing directions of what to do with cycling of the tank.

It is a certain person’s mission to attempt to indoctrinate new reef keepers to his so called “new” science, thus complicating the simple.

The goal was to get ammonia processing. Your tank is doing that. As a few of us said, you are ready to move forward — just take it slow — nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

 

[klvnnunez]

It is a certain person’s mission to attempt to indoctrinate new reef keepers to his so called “new” science, thus complicating the simple.

The goal was to get ammonia processing. Your tank is doing that. As a few of us said, you are ready to move forward — just take it slow — nothing good happens fast in a reef tank.

Sounds good. I will do a 50% water change tomorrow and introduce a pair of clowns

 

[MnFish1]

Thank you @MnFish1

I have stopped adding ammonia, I will let whatever is in the tank get comsumed by the bacteria or do a water change (whatever you recommend best). I have since put back the carbon, turned on the skimmer and filter pad. As of now, ammonia .25, nitrite is .2 and nitrate 2

Here's my setup and some picture

Equipment:
30G Tank: 31.5" x 13.8" x 15.7 (Drilled, one overflow and one return).
Skimmer: Bubble Magus Curve 3 Extreme
Heater: Schego 150W (Titanium)
Heater Controller: Inkbird ITC 308S
Return pump: Jecod Jebao DCP 2500
Powerhead 1 (Main): Jecod Jebao DMP 40
Powerhead 2: Jecod Jebao DMP 10
Glass Cleaner: Flipper Mini
Sump: 10 Gallons
Light: None yet
20 LB of Marco Rocks
1" Sand bed crushed corals

You're using the calculator incorrectly. The ammonia measurement type is NH4+NH3 - you then want it to calculate free NH3:


So - your Free ammonia (NH3) is 0.0129 - (assuming your 0.25 measurement is correct) - toxicity is usually seen >0.02-0.05 ppm. if/when you add fish, don't overfeed

 

[klvnnunez]

You're using the calculator incorrectly. The ammonia measurement type is NH4+NH3 - you then want it to calculate free NH3:


So - your Free ammonia (NH3) is 0.0129 - (assuming your 0.25 measurement is correct) - toxicity is usually seen >0.02-0.05 ppm. if/when you add fish, don't overfeed

I just found the proper calculator (see image below). Does this means the toxicity levels are under the range and safe to add fish?

 

[MnFish1]

I just found the proper calculator (see image below). Does this means the toxicity levels are under the range and safe to add fish?

That is the right calculator. I will trust your eyes better than mine - because to me that looks like 0.25-0.5 but - its probably the photo/lighting/and partial shadow noted

 

[fish_collector]

Long before there was live rock in boxes - there was dead coral skeletons.

Dead coral skeletons? Oh the horror!

Yes I maintained marine aquaria back then too. These corals decorating my home are leftovers from that era.

 

[fish_collector]

Thank you @MnFish1

I have stopped adding ammonia, I will let whatever is in the tank get comsumed by the bacteria or do a water change (whatever you recommend best). I have since put back the carbon, turned on the skimmer and filter pad. As of now, ammonia .25, nitrite is .2 and nitrate 2

Here's my setup and some picture

Equipment:
30G Tank: 31.5" x 13.8" x 15.7 (Drilled, one overflow and one return).
Skimmer: Bubble Magus Curve 3 Extreme
Heater: Schego 150W (Titanium)
Heater Controller: Inkbird ITC 308S
Return pump: Jecod Jebao DCP 2500
Powerhead 1 (Main): Jecod Jebao DMP 40
Powerhead 2: Jecod Jebao DMP 10
Glass Cleaner: Flipper Mini
Sump: 10 Gallons
Light: None yet
20 LB of Marco Rocks
1" Sand bed crushed corals

Nice tank good sir!

 

[klvnnunez]

***UPDATE***

After a few days of letting the tank do it's thing, I have performed a 50% water changewith the tank salinity at 1.026 and temperature at 78 F.

Ammonia has dialuted to less than .15ppm (see picture), nitrite is now .15 and nitrate 2. I have also decided to test phosphates after the water change, and with the Hanna Phosphate ULR, Im reading .6 after doing the conversion. I have two questions for you,

1. Am I ready to introduce a pair of clowns with the readings above?
2. Why is phosphate so high even after a 50% water change, and what to do to lower it? I am using RODI water with 0ppm DTS fyi and Pro Reef Meersalz salt.

Thanks in advance.

 

[fish_collector]

Water changes don't do too much to reduce phosphate. According to Randy, it's bound up in rocks and sand, when you introduce new water, it tries to equalize. 0.6 isn't that big of a deal.

 

[klvnnunez]

I have introuced the first habitants. please follow my main reef thread to see what I have added.

Build Thread - 30 Gallons Peninsula

Hi all, I am currently cycling a 30 gallon peninsula which eventually will be hosting mostly softies and LPS corals. I started the tank with Dr. Tim fishless cycling but it unfortunately crashed due to high ammonia. As of today, I have done a 50% water change and have re-started to process. You...

www.reef2reef.com

Thanks to all of those who commented and help me with the tank cycle. I am grateful.

 

[klvnnunez]

I'm back.

Something weird is happenig in the tank after adding a few fish. Today I did a 10% water change as I do on a weekly basis and the parameters are a bit out of whack.

Ammonia .15
Nitrite 5
Nitrate 2
Phosphates .6

What is happening here? Should I be concerned for the wellbeing of the fish? It seems the bacteria in the tank are having a hard time populating. Should I add more Fritz or what should be my immediate course of action?