Fezbearer
Active Member
Fritz sells Ammonium Chloride in a small tub (margarine sized).
Cycling an Aquarium
- Thread starter Brew12
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Erik the Red
Active Member
I’ve been dosing ammonia up to 1.5 mg/l and i added the Aquaforest BioS bacteria for 2 weeks, as prescribed by the instructions.
Still, after over 3 weeks from the start, i can’t measure any no2 nor no3 and the ammonia is stable at the same level.
pump is on
Lights, skimmer, heater are all off
I am running a bare-bottom tank with dry rocks
how’s it possible the cycle hasn’t started yet?
thanks!
Still, after over 3 weeks from the start, i can’t measure any no2 nor no3 and the ammonia is stable at the same level.
pump is on
Lights, skimmer, heater are all off
I am running a bare-bottom tank with dry rocks
how’s it possible the cycle hasn’t started yet?
thanks!
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
That would be very unusual. Is there any chance you have chlorine in your water? And are you sure you used a pure ammonia product? I'm not sure what is available in Denmark, but in the USA most of the ammonia we get from the store has soaps or scents in it.I’ve been dosing ammonia up to 1.5 mg/l and i added the Aquaforest BioS bacteria for 2 weeks, as prescribed by the instructions.
Still, after over 3 weeks from the start, i can’t measure any no2 nor no3 and the ammonia is stable at the same level.
pump is on
Lights, skimmer, heater are all off
I am running a bare-bottom tank with dry rocks
how’s it possible the cycle hasn’t started yet?
thanks!
It could be a test kit issue, too. I would consider taking a water sample to a local fish store and letting them test it if that is an option.
Erik the Red
Active Member
Thank you for your reply
I used water from my brand new RO filter, so I assume it should be fine. I let the filter to run for a couple of hours before using any water, as it was prescribed to do so in order to avoid the chemical disinfectants they use to store the filters for a longer time.
I am using Salifert test kits which will expiry in 2/3 years. I think the test works, because after the first addition of ammonia, the test was giving
for what regards the ammonia, I used Dr.Tims’
I really have no idea of the issue
How can I understand if there chlorine in the water? In any case, wouldn’t that evaporate?
No LFS which could analyse a sample...
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Looks like you are doing everything correctly that I can think of. And yes, if you had chlorine in your water it would break down, although that happens faster in light.Thank you for your reply
I used water from my brand new RO filter, so I assume it should be fine. I let the filter to run for a couple of hours before using any water, as it was prescribed to do so in order to avoid the chemical disinfectants they use to store the filters for a longer time.
I am using Salifert test kits which will expiry in 2/3 years. I think the test works, because after the first addition of ammonia, the test was giving
for what regards the ammonia, I used Dr.Tims’
I really have no idea of the issue
How can I understand if there chlorine in the water? In any case, wouldn’t that evaporate?
No LFS which could analyse a sample...
It is very odd, because even without the Bio S I would have expected you to start seeing some algae growth and ammonia consumption by now.
Erik the Red
Active Member
Are you or any other reader aware if the BioS contains living or dormant bacteria?
that might explain it...
is there any other product you would suggest? I might try another batch of bacteria at this point...
that might explain it...
is there any other product you would suggest? I might try another batch of bacteria at this point...
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
BioSpira has always been my preferred bacteria blend but after 3 or 4 weeks you shouldn't even need bottled bacteria. That is what has me baffled.
I think I would try throwing a little bit of food into your system. Flake, pellet, frozen... doesn't matter. Just the cheapest stuff you have laying around. I am wondering if your system is so clean that the bacteria aren't getting the non nitrogen fuel they need.
Erik the Red
Active Member
it could be! I’ll get some cheap stuff and do some ghost feeding.
by the way...the water has been looking slightly milky since few days after the inoculation. I have a few images on the build thread of the tank.
thanks a lot for the help
I’ll let you know if it worked! Have a nice day
by the way...the water has been looking slightly milky since few days after the inoculation. I have a few images on the build thread of the tank.
thanks a lot for the help
I’ll let you know if it worked! Have a nice day
newfly
Active Member
I just started cycling dry rock in a tub with a powerhead, heater at 72 , bottle bac (microbackter 7), and some seeded bio filter (matrix) from my established tank. I'm not in a hurry to cycle the rock. Dose ammonia to 2ppm. I'm not in a hurry. Can I just test after 2 weeks? Once ammonia = 0, I'll dose it back up to 2ppm. Repeat for 1-2 months, while waiting for my tank to arrive. Maybe weekly test on the 3rd week onwards. Once Nitrate get high, like >30, I'll change water?
I don't see the reason to test everyday. Will this work?
I don't see the reason to test everyday. Will this work?
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Absolutely. You have no reason to test daily imo.
newfly
Active Member
Thanks for the confirmation. I put 1L of matrix from my old tank and dump it with the new rock. Now I’m worry that’s too much established bacteria and may consumed all the ammonia versus encouraging new population on the new rock. How much seed bacteria do I need?
Maybe just a handful?
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
I wouldn't worry about adding anything else to seed it. It might be a good idea to pull a little bit of the matrix out every week or so.
newfly
Active Member
Thanks.
OP
OP
Brew12
Electrical Gru
Biopellets aren't really used for cycling an aquarium, but my understanding is that they should be used in a reactor for best results. I've never used them and have a refugium instead.
I have been cycling a 40 gallon breeder for 4 weeks now. I have been raising freshwater fish on and off for forty years. This is one of the best exclamations I have read in a long time. Thank you.Cycling a new aquarium.
One of the earliest topics a new aquarium hobbyist needs to learn is how to properly cycle their aquarium. There is a ton of information on this process and many different methods on how to accomplish it. There are many different chemical and biological cycles our tank goes through as it matures but this addresses the one most commonly discussed.
What is cycling?
The term cycling comes from the process known as the “Nitrogen Cycle”. When a plant or animal decays, or an animal expels waste, nitrogen is released. In our aquariums we initially see this as ammonia. Bacteria converts the ammonia to nitrite and then to nitrate. When we have enough bacteria to quickly convert ammonia to nitrate, we say that our tank has cycled. This is deceiving because the process doesn’t stop at this point and it is never complete. For this reason we need to think of this as establishing a large enough bacteria population to support fish, not completing a cycle.
Ammonia is a waste product of a fish’s cellular activity which is expelled through their gills. If the ammonia in the water is higher than in their blood it cannot be released and builds up in the fish causing cell damage. Nitrosomonas bacteria use ammonia as food and convert it to nitrite.
Nitrite is also harmful to fish. In a fish, nitrites hinder the ability of its blood to carry oxygen. Nitrites are a serious issue in fresh water systems. The same receptors in a fish that would absorb nitrites have a higher affinity for chlorides. The chlorides in saltwater block nitrites from being absorbed and protects the fish in marine systems. We rely on a different species of bacteria, Nitrobacter, to convert nitrite to nitrate.
Nitrates are relatively harmless for fish unless it reaches very high levels. Nitrates leaves our tank in any number of ways. We get rid of it via water changes. Algae and some corals can consume it as food.
The last part of the cycle is when nitrate is converted to nitrogen gas. This is done by anaerobic bacteria inside porous rock or within deep sand beds. Not every aquarium has the necessary conditions for this to occur
What conditions do I need for the cycle to occur?
To provide a good environment for the bacteria, we only need to make sure they are wet, oxygenated, and the pH is between 6.5 and 8.5. They will grow best at a temperature close to where we keep our tanks however they will still survive and reproduce at temperatures between 45F and 100F. We also want to monitor ammonia during this process. If ammonia gets over 5ppm it can slow down the rate bacteria reproduce. Above 10ppm it can stall the cycle.
How does rock affect the cycle?
The rock in a marine tank is the core of its filtration system. We use porous rock to provide as much surface area as possible for bacteria to grow on. The water flowing around the rock brings the ammonia and nitrites to the bacteria. If the rock is large enough it may have anaerobic bacteria deep within it that can convert the nitrates to nitrogen gas.
There are many types of rock that are available in our hobby. I won’t get into all of the different types but I do want to address how dry and live rock impacts the cycle
Dry rock is just that. It is rock that has been dried out and has nothing alive on it. Dry rock can be “clean” where it is considered safe to put directly into an aquarium. If it is not clean it will need to be cured prior to use. Either way, it will not contain nitrifying bacteria. This isn’t a problem as nitrifying bacteria are everywhere and it would be impossible to keep them out of our aquarium even if we wanted to.
Live rock is rock that does have living bacteria on it. The main reason to use live rock is to speed up the cycling process. Just like with dry rock, not all live rock is ready to put immediately in an aquarium. For simplicity I am going to put live rock in 2 broad categories. If your live rock came directly out of a marine system and is kept submerged in quality water during transport you can put it directly into your tank. If the rock was exposed to air or shipped damp then it needs to be cured prior to use. The bacteria on this rock will be fine but other living things may have died and should be removed prior to putting it in your tank.
How do I feed the bacteria?
There are many different takes on this and it is largely a matter of opinion. So here are the most common ways from worst to best in my opinion.
Adding a fish – while it will work as an ammonia source, why would you make a fish suffer in an environment in which it can’t properly shed its toxins?
Ghost feeding – When you add food to the tank you are adding much more than just what breaks down to ammonia. While none of it will be a problem, other than possibly algae, this is an uncontrolled process.
Adding a shrimp – The shrimp will decay and create ammonia, but again, this is an uncontrolled process. How much ammonia will this add and how quickly? I don’t know.
Dosing pure ammonia – This is the only method I will ever use in the future. You can measure exactly how much you need to add to achieve a specific level of ammonia. You can measure just how quickly your bacteria consume it to judge the health of your bacteria population.
How do I recommend doing it?
I’m glad you asked! I’ll start from the point where the tank is set up, filled, has flow, and temperature is in the normal range. It doesn’t matter if you used live or dry rock.
I will either use pure ammonia or ammonium chloride to raise the total ammonia to 2ppm. I will test for ammonia, nitrites, and nitrates daily until ammonia is near 0ppm. I will then dose it back up to 2ppm while continuing daily tests. I will repeat this process in a smaller tank until ammonia goes from 2ppm to 0ppm within 24 hours. In tanks that are 90g+ that will be stocked slowly I will only dose to 1ppm ammonia after the initial dose and consider it cycled when it drops from 1ppm to 0ppm in 24 hours. This is to limit nitrates in larger tanks. Keep in mind that a 120g system that drops 1ppm in a day can support more fish than a 40g tank that drops 2ppm in a day.
But I still have questions!
Ok, let me see if I can answer some of the more common ones.
If nitrifying bacteria are everywhere, why are “bacteria in a bottle” products so popular?
Nitrifying bacteria are everywhere so that isn’t the problem. Some bacteria can double their population in 20 minutes. Luck would have it that these tend to be the more poisonous kind. Nitrifying bacteria are relatively slow reproducers and it takes between 8 and 24 hours for them to double their population. If you start with dry rocks it can take a month or two to produce enough bacteria to support even a few small fish. Using bacteria in a bottle instantly provides a larger source of bacteria to speed up the front end of this process.
My cycle went fine for 3 weeks but now it stalled, what happened?
It could be any number of things. Did you let your ammonia go to high? Do you have a pH issue?
Your nitrifying bacteria may be being outcompeted for resources with other bacteria and/or algae. They may process ammonia fine at first but they will eventually go dormant. When this happens, your cycle will stall until a more marine friendly bacterium reproduces enough to begin the cycling process again. Bacteria in your tank are in constant competition for food. Eventually the one best suited to your specific system will thrive.
Can I vacuum out too much bacteria by cleaning? Will cleaning my sand bed cause my tank to cycle?
No, you cannot hurt your bacteria population by routine vacuuming or water changes. These bacteria are very difficult to remove from solid surfaces and would be difficult to remove even with scrubbing.
If your sand bed is very dirty you may cause an ammonia spike that is larger than your current bacteria population can handle but you haven’t done any harm to your bacteria population.
Can I use old tank water to cut back on my new tanks cycle time?
You can, but it won’t help much. The majority of the bacteria is going to be growing on hard surfaces, not floating in the water. There will be some, however, so you will likely introduce a strain of bacteria into your new tank that will eventually work very well.
I never measured any nitrite during my cycle, is this a problem?
No, odds are this is not a problem. It is possible that you had a larger initial population of Nitrobacter bacteria (nitrite eaters) compared to Nitrosomonas bacteria (ammonia eaters). In this case the nitrite was processed to nitrate almost as soon as it was produced.
Another possibility is that you have a large population of Nitrospira bacteria. These bacteria convert ammonia into nitrite and then to nitrate within the same cell structure so the nitrite is never released into the water to be measured.
My tank has been empty for 6 months, did my bacteria starve?
No. It is almost impossible to starve bacteria. They will adjust their metabolism and reproduction rates based on the food supply. As the amount of available food goes down, they will process it slower and reproduce less. If they go without food long enough they will go into a cystic stage (typically around a year without food). Once food is available again it will take longer for them to recover from this stage but they are still viable.
This does not mean that your tank is ready for fish after sitting dormant for up to a year. Bacteria is part of the food chain and is consumed by many different organisms. Just because your bacteria didn’t starve doesn’t mean it didn’t get eaten or is still viable. Every aquarium will respond differently based on its unique biology.
Why can I add more fish to an older aquarium faster than a new aquarium?
Let’s say you have 2 identical aquariums set up one year apart. They both have the exact same number and size of fish and both have 0 ppm ammonia and nitrite. They must have the same amount of bacteria, right? Well, no. The older tank will have a larger population of bacteria that is processing ammonia at a slower rate. The younger tank will have a smaller population of bacteria with faster metabolisms. If you add new fish to the younger tank you need to wait for the population to increase which can take days. In an older aquarium, the bacteria only need to become more active which can happen in a matter of hours.
newfly
Active Member
I know patient is the key. Not much change in ammonia at close to 2ppm (maybe a tad lower, but not noticeable with my test kit). I thought i have 0.05 nitrite, but second test shows 0. Nitrate at 0.
Its only been a week. I'm surprise no nitrite/nitrate given that i have good amount of seeded matrix in the tub.
Arg.. i am expecting something to happen. I crank up the heater to 78. I know, patient and more patient.
newfly
Active Member
Ammonia now at 0.2! Once it start, it’s dropping fast! I supposed this makes sense as I read bacteria double it’s population every 15hours in ideal situation. Started my cycle with dry rock exactly 14days ago.
I contaminated this cycle with existing media from current tank. To avoid transferring any pathogen , im going to keep it soaking for 72 days. Planning to dose ammonia once a week. I assume this will keep the bacteria heathy and continue to multiply. Once my main tank is ready I’ll have a very health colony of bacteria.
I contaminated this cycle with existing media from current tank. To avoid transferring any pathogen , im going to keep it soaking for 72 days. Planning to dose ammonia once a week. I assume this will keep the bacteria heathy and continue to multiply. Once my main tank is ready I’ll have a very health colony of bacteria.
kilnakorr
Well-Known Member
I hope your cycle is moving forward.
Just to clear things up. You don't have chlorine in your water. Chlorine or other additives hasn't been used in Denmark since 2009
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