Damselfish stranded in quarantine

[Carla2]

Hi Reef2Reef, I've been in a bit of a knotty situation ... I've had a young springer's damselfish in the quarantine for almost 70 days now, but I'm not sure if I should transfer this fish to my display.
At first I had this damselfish and two neon gobies together, all juvenile. The two neon gobies died in the quarantine. I'm not sure if the damsel now carries whatever had killed the neon gobies, though he looks perfectly healthy to me and is eating well.

I've already treated them for marine ich, velvet and flukes, though this doesn't completely rule out the presence of these parasites. Both neon gobies used to eat well but one day they would stop eating out of the blue to be found dead the next day. The larger goby wasn't thin. The smaller goby was extremely thin and had white stringy poop a little before dying, which I attempted to treat with MetroPlex. The larger goby had a white spot (1-2mm) on the belly and the smaller had the same thing inside its mouth when they died. I dipped the smaller goby in freshwater and it didn't reveal flukes.

Here's what happened so far:

Day 1-5 I made sure they were eating well.
Day 6 Began Cupramine treatment. Raised the level by 0.05mg/L per day.
Day 9 Reached the therapeutic level for velvet (0.20mg/L).
Day 12 Reached the therapeutic level for marine ich (0.35mg/L).
Day 13 Reached the target concentration (0.40mg/L).
Day 25 Moved only the fish to the new nonmedicated quarantine. Didn't lower the copper level in the old quarantine before doing so.
Day 33 PraziPro first round.
Day 40 PraziPro second round, but before I dosed the med I found the larger neon goby dead on the bottom.
Day 46 Started MetroPlex food because I saw stringy poop on the smaller neon goby.
Day 47 PraziPro third round.
Day 54 I found the smaller neon goby dead.

I tested copper levels using Seachem kit so I think the concentration was accurate enough.
I began to see white worms on the edge of the quarantine and under PVC pipes after I started MetroPlex food. I've removed at least 40 worms from the tank but I'd always find at least one the next day. I'm still feeding MetroPlex food to the damselfish.

Also, in an article linked from this forum I found velvet has better copper detoxification methods than some other parasites, a strain requiring a dose of 1.2 ppm. Is it possible I came across such copper resistant strains of velvet, or perhaps ... did I raise copper level so slowly that the parasites happened to have enough time to adjust?
My damselfish shows no symptoms at all, but I'm not surprised if he carries velvet. I've seen many springer's damselfish (not this individual) thrive for months in a store infested with velvet ... tough species.

What should I do? It can be devastating if I add him to the display while he harbors velvet, but am I worrying too much? If I have to retry medication I've got Cupramine and CP, but for CP I only have Ick Shield and can't seem to get pharmaceutical grade CP (unhelpful vets and companies ;Sour). Or should I somehow add another fish to the quarantine to confirm the damsel is velvet-free, or just move the damsel to the display and hope for the best?

Thanks!

 

[Humblefish]

Black molly test his QT: https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/freshwater-black-mollies-vs-marine-fish-diseases.312166/

 

[Carla2]

Wow very interesting. I've never kept freshwater fish so I have no idea what they are like, but I'll be looking into getting black mollies.
I guess some stores share nets and equipment between their saltwater and freshwater tanks, so should I try to get these mollies from stores specializing in freshwater species? Or would it be fine if the molly was scooped with a net sprinkled with marine parasites?

 

[Big G]

Wow very interesting. I've never kept freshwater fish so I have no idea what they are like, but I'll be looking into getting black mollies.
I guess some stores share nets and equipment between their saltwater and freshwater tanks, so should I try to get these mollies from stores specializing in freshwater species? Or would it be fine if the molly was scooped with a net sprinkled with marine parasites?

Interesting question. If possible, I'd get one from a freshwater fish store. Petsmart are freshwater only, for example.

 

[Carla2]

I will try to get them from a freshwater only store. Thanks Humblefish and Big G! I'll add them when I no longer see worms in the quarantine. I'll post later how it goes.
One more question, some black mollies seem to have small tails while others are called lyretails. Pretty fish ... Can I use either type as long as they are common mollies (Poecilia sphenops)?

 

[Big G]

Either would be fine. It’s the black color that really helps to contrast with the white marks of the parasite.

 

[Carla2]

Okay thanks! I'll be looking into molly acclimation!

 

[Humblefish]

Okay thanks! I'll be looking into molly acclimation!

https://hubpages.com/animals/Keeping-Breeding-and-Raising-Saltwater-Mollies

 

[Carla2]

Thank you Humblefish!

Now I'm confused ... black mollies are labeled either as sailfin mollies (Poecilia latipinna) or common mollies (Poecilia sphenops). I don't know which species I should pick.

For example, PetSmart's online store lists black molly as Poecilia sphenops.
Black Molly PetSmart

On the other hand, LiveAquaria says their black mollies are Poecilia latipinna.
Black Molly LiveAquaria

I went to Wikipedia and it says the midnight molly, a type of sailfin mollies, are called the black molly. But it also says black common mollies are called black mollies as well. Then it goes on to say that midnight mollies, the sailfin version of black mollies, are actually originated from hybrids between black common mollies and sailfin mollies ;Dead
Sailfin molly Wikipedia
Poecilia sphenops Wikipedia

My head's reeling ... to me it seems the same fish are sometimes sold as Poecilia latipinna and other times as Poecilia sphenops though I could be wrong ...

Some people seem to have a hard time getting their mollies to survive in full saltwater after acclimation. Maybe some of them were using the wrong species?
The article (Humblefish's link) says the author mostly acclimated sailfin mollies. Does this mean I should try only those listed as Poecilia latipinna/Mollienesia latipinna? Or is it okay to try their look-alikes listed as Poecilia sphenops?

 

[Humblefish]

@Carla2 The sailfin molly (Mollienesia latipinna) seems to adapt more readily to full SW conditions and is "sturdier" for reef tank life. Their larger size makes it easier to withstand the flow of a typical reef tank and not as likely to be harassed by SW fish.

However, for your QT purposes Poecilia sphenops should do just fine. But if you can find sailfins that are all black and especially if you plan on putting them in your DT afterwards, I would go that route instead.

 

[Carla2]

Good to know they both can do well in saltwater ;Happy I'm trying to find a freshwater only store that will ship black sailfin mollies to me, but if I can't find any I will go for black common mollies and think about where they can go after quarantine ... probably my refugium or someone else's freshwater tank.
Hopefully no one drowns during acclimation!

 

[Big G]

Good to know they both can do well in saltwater ;Happy I'm trying to find a freshwater only store that will ship black sailfin mollies to me, but if I can't find any I will go for black common mollies and think about where they can go after quarantine ... probably my refugium or someone else's freshwater tank.
Hopefully no one drowns during acclimation!

Some of those mollies are great algae eaters . . . CUC in the sump?

 

[Carla2]

If I put them in the refugium, gotta ask them not to eat everything ... the algae down there are a bit droopy lately because my clownfish like growing their green home in the back of the display

 

[Carla2]

I got four black mollies from a freshwater only store to test if my quarantine has velvet or other marine parasites. I kept them in freshwater for 2 days before I acclimated them to saltwater (8-hour drip, at first very slow and later fast, with an airstone and temp matched) then I transferred them to the saltwater quarantine. Three of them looked fine, eating damselfish poop the moment they entered the tank, but one of them, the pregnant/bloated-looking one, looked listless at the water surface. But within a couple of hours she began to eat algae in the quarantine so I thought maybe she was fine.

Today I woke up to two dead mollies, one floating and one at the bottom. The floating one had very white fins (dehydration?). A bit of the tail of one of the bodies was missing. They had some white markings on the gills and bellies but they already had these when they came. After doing a freshwater dip on the two bodies I could see no flukes.

My question is, did the two mollies probably die of an acclimation failure, not velvet? The night they were added to the saltwater quarantine they looked fine and the next morning they were already dead.

Also, the smaller surviving molly is acting very reclusive after I turned on the lighting today (I had it turned off during acclimation). He would rarely venture out from under the filter sponge. When he goes out the larger molly chases him back to the filter. I don't know why this suddenly started, because the four mollies all got along in the freshwater quarantine (which had no light). Should I put him back into freshwater, try separating them in the same tank or watch them for a few more hours? (By the way the damselfish is sometimes being chased by the larger molly as well, but not as often.)

 

[Big G]

I'd leave them in there to do their job.

 

[Carla2]

I'm watching them in the quarantine. They stopped squabbling but now they both look reclusive in the back corner, though they keep eating algae off the glass. Hopefully they had gotten acclimated but I'm not sure now. Maybe I should turn off the light?

 

[Carla2]

I've just realized I might miss the sign of velvet if I turn off the light ...

 

[Big G]

I'm watching them in the quarantine. They stopped squabbling but now they both look reclusive in the back corner, though they keep eating algae off the glass. Hopefully they had gotten acclimated but I'm not sure now. Maybe I should turn off the light?

Sometimes if you turn off the tank light and just use the ambient light from the a room lamp it's enough to calm them down. Use a small flashlight to check on the fish. Just move slowly.

 

[Carla2]

Thanks Big G! The light will turn off shortly and I'll try low lighting tomorrow.

 

[Carla2]

The two mollies are still alive. The smaller one shimmied last night but today he is swimming normally. They look a lot calmer now. They haven't been eating very well though, just a few flakes yesterday and they had difficulty swallowing brine shrimp today though they kept trying.

All of their fins are badly tattered. I did see them (2 mollies and 1 damselfish) chase each other a few times after they woke up but I haven't seen them actually fight. I don't think it's fin nipping. The two dead mollies had frayed fins too. Are their fins tattered because of dehydration, or is it possible some kind of marine bacteria caused infection? Should I treat them?

(Their fins are badly frayed. The white blotch on the left one's dorsal fin is actually salt on the glass ;Blackeye)