Dinoflagellate ID

[Asmolupers]

I’ve searched the web trying to ID this and it looks a lot like Alexandrium Catenella. The only problems is, I thought that type was a cold water type. Also, I searched the whole slide for a chain of these and couldn’t find any. The pic is a cluster of them which aren’t moving at all. Anyone know what exactly this is?

 

[Asmolupers]

Im not sure how to edit my post but, it appears to be coolia which makes more sense.

 

[taricha]

The dinos are indeed coolia.
[tagging @Dan_P for the excellent pic of the cyanobacteria that doesn't look like the kinds that I grow, nor really like the kinds he grows either. This has more constriction at cross-walls and flatter, more coin-like cells. sounds more like textbook oscillatoria maybe..]

 

[Jason mack]

Check this post in my build thread ..

Build Thread - Mack’s Reef dino support group

Dang!! @reeferfoxx Do you have any incite for Jason's dino's?

www.reef2reef.com

Im not sure how to edit my post but, it appears to be coolia which makes more sense.

 

[Dan_P]

The dinos are indeed coolia.
[tagging @Dan_P for the excellent pic of the cyanobacteria that doesn't look like the kinds that I grow, nor really like the kinds he grows either. This has more constriction at cross-walls and flatter, more coin-like cells. sounds more like textbook oscillatoria maybe..]

This is a professional, high resolution photomicrograph!

I have seen hints of cell walls like this in some of my Oscillatoria cultures lately. I wonder if their prominence means anything

 

[jimmypencil]

How did you beat these Dino’s? I have coolia I think but the cells don’t move and they are mainly in sand

 

[jimmypencil]

Also, I’ve been dosing 2ml of this silicate solution a week to my 125g tank for a while. That should be 1ppm.

But I never get diatoms… how is that possible? I’m using this 40% solution. Should I raise the dose?

@Randy Holmes-Farley

 

[EnterName]

How did you beat these Dino’s? I have coolia I think but the cells don’t move and they are mainly in sand

https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/dinoflagellateid12_12_2019-pdf.1324729/

UV sterilizer,

manual removal and tank maintenance,

I personally recommend very low but ever so slightly detectable nutrient levels. When there is a lot of growth undetectable levels might still be fine even if dinos like to appear when nutrients are bottoming out,

Silicate dosing (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/silicate-dosing-for-reef-tanks.1129689/) to encourage diatom growth. Some dinos prey on diatoms but at a certain point they seem to "overrun" the dinos. As those coolia don't move right now, I could imagine they are relying purely on photosynthesis right now.

I'm personally not a fan of blackouts as everything (including your coral's zooxanthellae which are also dinoflagellates that have to give a large portion of their produced energy to the coral) will starve before those dinos will. But, if you can't get those Coolia to get off the substrate, you can try turning the light off for a while longer.

 

[jimmypencil]

https://www.reef2reef.com/attachments/dinoflagellateid12_12_2019-pdf.1324729/

UV sterilizer,

manual removal and tank maintenance,

I personally recommend very low but ever so slightly detectable nutrient levels. When there is a lot of growth undetectable levels might still be fine even if dinos like to appear when nutrients are bottoming out,

Silicate dosing (https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/silicate-dosing-for-reef-tanks.1129689/) to encourage diatom growth. Some dinos prey on diatoms but at a certain point they seem to "overrun" the dinos. As those coolia don't move right now, I could imagine they are relying purely on photosynthesis right now.

I'm personally not a fan of blackouts as everything (including your coral's zooxanthellae which are also dinoflagellates that have to give a large portion of their produced energy to the coral) will starve before those dinos will. But, if you can't get those Coolia to get off the substrate, you can try turning the light off for a while longer.

Thank you again for the help! I guess I will step up my silicate dosing a bit. I have also started using a uv sand sweeper and tropic Marin nitribiotic bacteria.

 

[jimmypencil]

Also, I’ve been dosing 2ml of this silicate solution a week to my 125g tank for a while. That should be 1ppm.

But I never get diatoms… how is that possible? I’m using this 40% solution. Should I raise the dose?

@Randy Holmes-Farley

I posted this on the wrong thread lol. Meant to post here.

Thread 'Dino ID - Coolia? Why are cells not moving?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-id-coolia-why-are-cells-not-moving.1164166/

 

[EnterName]

I posted this on the wrong thread lol. Meant to post here.

Thread 'Dino ID - Coolia? Why are cells not moving?'
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dino-id-coolia-why-are-cells-not-moving.1164166/

Some of the cells look destroyed, but others look just fine and should theoretically be able to move. That being said dinos don't always move. I would try to take a sample without shaking it as you described and if that doesn't help you can prepare a microscope slide and store it somewhere dark for 30min - 60min or so. I would suggest you add some petroleum jelly to the edges of the cover slide to ensure water cannot evaporate as fast. Maybe they will move if they are in absolute darkness for a while as photosynthesis won't help them to satisfy their nutritional needs.

 

[jimmypencil]

Some of the cells look destroyed, but others look just fine and should theoretically be able to move. That being said dinos don't always move. I would try to take a sample without shaking it as you described and if that doesn't help you can prepare a microscope slide and store it somewhere dark for 30min - 60min or so. I would suggest you add some petroleum jelly to the edges of the cover slide to ensure water cannot evaporate as fast. Maybe they will move if they are in absolute darkness for a while as photosynthesis won't help them to satisfy their nutritional needs.

Jason Mack on Mack’s reef Dino Facebook group said he’s “99 percent sure” these are diatoms… several other admins in that group said the same. I don’t know what to believe anymore. I think they look identical to reference in photos of Dino’s so I find it hard to believe. It’s also difficult to question Mack since he’s the Dino expert but idk.

 

[EnterName]

Some of the cells look destroyed, but others look just fine and should theoretically be able to move. That being said dinos don't always move. I would try to take a sample without shaking it as you described and if that doesn't help you can prepare a microscope slide and store it somewhere dark for 30min - 60min or so. I would suggest you add some petroleum jelly to the edges of the cover slide to ensure water cannot evaporate as fast. Maybe they will move if they are in absolute darkness for a while as photosynthesis won't help them to satisfy their nutritional needs.

Jason Mack on Mack’s reef Dino Facebook group said he’s “99 percent sure” these are diatoms… several other admins in that group said the same. I don’t know what to believe anymore. I think they look identical to reference in photos of Dino’s so I find it hard to believe. It’s also difficult to question Mack since he’s the Dino expert but idk.

Show him this image again (I cropped one of your images). You can see the typical slit in the thecae and can also see the two plates being slightly off-center (especially the darker right cell in the cropped image shows this), while centric diatoms tend to be fully symmetric.

I'm not saying he is wrong, I certainly can, have, and will make mistakes, but maybe he missed these specific cells where this distinctive feature is visible.

 

[jimmypencil]

Show him this image again (I cropped one of your images). You can see the typical slit in the thecae and can also see the two plates being slightly off-center (especially the darker right cell in the cropped image shows this), while centric diatoms tend to be fully symmetric.

I'm not saying he is wrong, I certainly can, have, and will make mistakes, but maybe he missed these specific cells where this distinctive feature is visible.

I meant my photo sorry. OP photo looks more like Dino’s. These are my photos.

 

[EnterName]

I meant my photo sorry. OP photo looks more like Dino’s. These are my photos.

Oh okay, yes those look more like diatoms. My bad confusing your images and OP's images.
I've never found centric diatoms in my tank unfortunately. They would be a great addition to my microscopy thread
I don't even remember the last time I saw someone posting centric ones... might actually be quite a rarity what you have got there.

I was getting really confused there for a moment and started to doubt my own eyes