Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[lesbrers]

Also sort of along the same vein, if we do finally get rid of dino and want to get N and P levels down to something still detectable but not so elevated, what options are available if GFO and carbon dosing can fuel dino growth?

 

[taricha]

I keep seeing clear worm like things and orange ones. Any idea what they are? They are a good 30 times larger than the diatoms and Dino’s.

Clear super active thrashing worms = nematodes.
Orange twisting wiggling blobs (make an appearance in bebow's video) = ciliates

 

[taricha]

Also sort of along the same vein, if we do finally get rid of dino and want to get N and P levels down to something still detectable but not so elevated, what options are available if GFO and carbon dosing can fuel dino growth?

I wouldn't trust anything except algae export, and even that I would watch very suspiciously.
I wouldn't think about pushing nutrients down (more accurately - letting them fall) until the tank had been totally healthy and dino free for months.

 

[TRock]

I wouldn't trust anything except algae export, and even that I would watch very suspiciously.
I wouldn't think about pushing nutrients down (more accurately - letting them fall) until the tank had been totally healthy and dino free for months.

I have an algae reactor canister that I'm running on reverse light cycle. I'm not emptying it. I'm keeping it packed completely full. As new stuff grows, it blocks light and old stuff dies leaving a zero sum nutrient cycle. If nutrients ever get too high, then I'll remove some chaeto and spread the remaining out in the chamber to grow. I have it running for 6 hours a day. I don't see many Dinos in there. Just some in my display. I still have to dose N and P to keep levels up. I feel running it like this gives me additional habitat for pods and and maybe has some sort of unknown allelopathic value.

Everything seems healthy except for a pile of dino snot in a portion of the sandbed of my display tank. Lots of hair algae and some disc-like algae I've never seen before in anyone elses tank before.

 

[mcarroll]

@lesbrers I'd say ditto to what @taricha just posted.

Try to get to a place where you can't remember why you used to worry about nutrient levels.

High or low mostly doesn't matter (zero stinks)...stable matters.

Healthy, well-nourished, non-starving microbes will ultimately make for a stable system...they can't help it...but they do require stable routines. Minimize disturbances, maximize stability....right down to feeding routines....be as consistent as you are able to be. Use an auto-feeder when possible, just for one example.

 

[lesbrers]

@lesbrers I'd say ditto to what @taricha just posted.

Try to get to a place where you can't remember why you used to worry about nutrient levels.

High or low mostly doesn't matter (zero stinks)...stable matters.

Healthy, well-nourished, non-starving microbes will ultimately make for a stable system...they can't help it...but they do require stable routines. Minimize disturbances, maximize stability....right down to feeding routines....be as consistent as you are able to be. Use an auto-feeder when possible, just for one example.

Thanks. I'll try to keep my hands out of the tank besides my manual siphoning and just maintain the N and P levels and let the tank do its thing. Would you advise stopping the other things (GFO, bacteria dosing) as well? Sometimes I get an itch to just do something besides just waiting and watching. Just can't help it I guess.

 

[taricha]

I feel running it like this gives me additional habitat for pods and and maybe has some sort of unknown allelopathic value....
...and some disc-like algae I've never seen before in anyone elses tank before.

I agree having the algae plumbed in is worthwhile, even if you don't export - for the reasons you mentioned.
Any pics of the weird disc algae?

 

[marcustan]

I used Spectracide stump remover (potassium nitrate) and Brightwell Aquatics NeoPhos.

Thank you

 

[tonymacc]

Id say you are on the right track thinking with this UV then, absolutely let us know how it goes. I hope it eradicates yours as it did mine!

well its in, connected and up and running. fingers crossed.

 

[Izi]

Can you ID this type of dinos?

 

[taricha]

Can you ID this type of dinos?

Ostreopsis. Bad news is is usually quite toxic. Good news is it's the most quickly responsive to the methods outlined here.

 

[TRock]

I agree having the algae plumbed in is worthwhile, even if you don't export - for the reasons you mentioned.
Any pics of the weird disc algae?

Of course. You can see some stuck to my hammer. This isn't the best example. Of the algae in my tank, but it's close to the glass, and I'm able to get a good pic of it. Pic taken with lights off and a flashlight to display more realistic colours. You can see some small sticks of neomeris algae there too. This, along with the disc-like algae are the bane of my existence and always required massive amounts of manual removal to stay under control. Since I started dosing nutrients, I've let the disc algae grow, but prune every bit I can of the neomeris. I also have Caulepra mexicana, green film algae, halimeda algae but they're relatively easy to deal with.

 

[Izi]

Ostreopsis. Bad news is is usually quite toxic. Good news is it's the most quickly responsive to the methods outlined here.

Thank you, what do you recommend?

 

[Bob Lauson]

Get a right sized UV Sterilizer and run it in the display tank 24/7. It eradicated my o. Dino’s in less then 2 days.

 

[taricha]

Of course. You can see some stuck to my hammer. This isn't the best example. Of the algae in my tank, but it's close to the glass, and I'm able to get a good pic of it. Pic taken with lights off and a flashlight to display more realistic colours.

Thank you for that! Small color differences matters a lot in getting something in the right class.
Acetabularia! Cool!
http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices...sycladales/ACETABULARIA/Acetabularia_key.html

 

[TRock]

Thank you for that! Small color differences matters a lot in getting something in the right class.
Acetabularia! Cool!
http://cfb.unh.edu/phycokey/Choices...sycladales/ACETABULARIA/Acetabularia_key.html

Wow thanks Taricha! I'll have to focus efforts on removing it in the near future. Now that my Dino issue is manageable. This algae is very difficult to remove.

I should have checked all my algae under a microscope, but I've refrained from buying one throughout this whole ordeal due to the fact that I know I have one. I just can't find it

Im going to hook up a 9w coralife uv unit as soon as a replacement bulb gets here. It's a little small for my 40gal, but I already own it and I'm just being cheap opposed to purchasing a larger one. I'm hoping that running it 24/7 will reduce successive algae and dino growth, even if it only has minimal effects.

What got me into this whole Dino issue was definitely attempting to maintain 0 nutrients. I haven't been the best at keeping N and P above 10, and 0.1 mg/L respectively, but they've never bottomed out since the bloom first occurred a couple months ago, and their numbers are waning.

Pod population is way up in my sump and chaeto reactor from where it initially was, and I'll think about adfdng more CUC members soon.

 

[taricha]

Thank you, what do you recommend?

Take a few minutes and go through the first post. (As Bob said UV is an effective part) post up with any questions.

 

[Bret Brinkmann]

Thanks. I'll try to keep my hands out of the tank besides my manual siphoning and just maintain the N and P levels and let the tank do its thing. Would you advise stopping the other things (GFO, bacteria dosing) as well? Sometimes I get an itch to just do something besides just waiting and watching. Just can't help it I guess.

Definitely stop GFO and bacteria dosing. GFO is taking out the stuff you are dosing, PO4, so why fight yourself? Bacteria may compete with dinos for nutrients but they just become dino food once nutrients drop low enough and the dinos switch to bacteriavores. At that point you aren't dosing bacteria anymore, you are dosing dino food.

The idea is to get other algae, not bacteria, to compete with dinos for trace nutrients. We don't know the exact trace nutrient at this time, but it isn't PO4 or NO3. We think it is Fe. PO4 and NO3 are dosed because as algae use it, they are also using up the other trace nutrients. Things sometimes get a lot worse at first but eventually the tank hits that trace nutrient limitation and the dino growth almost completely stops. Other algae growth usually slows too, but not as much as dinos. Water changes can add more of the trace nutrient back in, so don't do water changes if you don't have to.

I would also recommend putting GAC, granular activated carbon, in your reactor to help with toxins. GAC is not to be confused with carbon dosing. Carbon dosing is completely different than GAC.

 

[lesbrers]

Definitely stop GFO and bacteria dosing. GFO is taking out the stuff you are dosing, PO4, so why fight yourself? Bacteria may compete with dinos for nutrients but they just become dino food once nutrients drop low enough and the dinos switch to bacteriavores. At that point you aren't dosing bacteria anymore, you are dosing dino food.

The idea is to get other algae, not bacteria, to compete with dinos for trace nutrients. We don't know the exact trace nutrient at this time, but it isn't PO4 or NO3. We think it is Fe. PO4 and NO3 are dosed because as algae use it, they are also using up the other trace nutrients. Things sometimes get a lot worse at first but eventually the tank hits that trace nutrient limitation and the dino growth almost completely stops. Other algae growth usually slows too, but not as much as dinos. Water changes can add more of the trace nutrient back in, so don't do water changes if you don't have to.

I would also recommend putting GAC, granular activated carbon, in your reactor to help with toxins. GAC is not to be confused with carbon dosing. Carbon dosing is completely different than GAC.

Thanks. Already running GAC. Will pull the GFO offline and stop the bacteria . Appreciate the advice.

 

[taricha]

Wow thanks Taricha! I'll have to focus efforts on removing it in the near future. Now that my Dino issue is manageable. This algae is very difficult to remove.

I should have checked all my algae under a microscope, but I've refrained from buying one throughout this whole ordeal due to the fact that I know I have one. I just can't find it [emoji14]

Im going to hook up a 9w coralife uv unit as soon as a replacement bulb gets here. It's a little small for my 40gal, but I already own it and I'm just being cheap opposed to purchasing a larger one. I'm hoping that running it 24/7 will reduce successive algae and dino growth, even if it only has minimal effects.

What got me into this whole Dino issue was definitely attempting to maintain 0 nutrients. I haven't been the best at keeping N and P above 10, and 0.1 mg/L respectively, but they've never bottomed out since the bloom first occurred a couple months ago, and their numbers are waning.

Pod population is way up in my sump and chaeto reactor from where it initially was, and I'll think about adfdng more CUC members soon.

Before you hook up UV...
It sounds like you have a lot of happy macros, increasing microfauna, and dinos (sounds likely to be amphidinium) restricted to spots on the sand bed. If this is the case, (tank pics?) then you may be a good candidate to try just pushing the dinos out by crowding out with macroalgae.
Just put blobs of macro (chaeto worked best for me) right on the trouble spots on the sand.
You can read details of where I did this linked in the first post of the amphidinium methods thread (under "macroalgae crowding") https://www.reef2reef.com/index.php?posts/4523313