Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[reeferfoxx]

This thread is amazing. I'm trying to get better image, but any possible id from this?

It's kind of difficult to tell. I'm leaning towards prorocentrum.

 

[Stephers]

It's kind of difficult to tell. I'm leaning towards prorocentrum.

Thank you. Is that a species that goes into the water at night? Which ones do that? Mine seems to...

 

[Stephers]

Well, I think you're right on the ID. I'm going to order uv tonight. My nitrates are about 8. Phosphate was 0.02 yesterday. I've been dosing to get it up. This all stemed from a 0 nitrate and Phosphate problem months ago, and it has only recently gotten bad. I didn't know they were dinos :/

I do have a patch of cyano and green algae growing. And I've seen lots of pods around, so hopefully it'll turn around quick. Corals are not happy.

 

[Stephers]

Maybe have two types? These guys came off the back wall. And move like ostreo do. Uv either way I guess.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Maybe have two types? These guys came off the back wall. And move like ostreo do. Uv either way I guess.

I agree with ostreopsis. You're a natural at this

Sounds like you might have caught it early. You would definitely benefit from UV. I recommend having it in the display. It doesn't have to be a permanent placement.

 

[Stephers]

I agree with ostreopsis. You're a natural at this

Sounds like you might have caught it early. You would definitely benefit from UV. I recommend having it in the display. It doesn't have to be a permanent placement.

Thanks a bunch! UV will be here Wednesday and I'm still working on getting my phosphates to stay up. I'll update with my results.

 

[Princess Hockey]

I have ostreopsis, thanks for the ID from earlier in this thread! Reef tank, 115g tsv, 3 months old.

Dosed sodium nitrate to bring my nitrates up from 0 to about 5ppm, 5 days ago. Phosphates are at 0.1 and have maintained that. Added a 24W UV filter into the display 6 days ago (hopefully temporary set up). Changed my lighting set up quite a bit, reduced overall lit hours and minimized UV and white lights...longer periods of all blue instead. Tried to siphon and blow off what I could. Skipped my water change this weekend. Overfed quite a bit.

As a result, seeing a definite reduction in the stringy stuff, particularly that which was attached to my corals. ALL of my angry corals have re-opened (clove polyps and some zoas were closed up tight for several days). Clove polyps aren't fully extended but all heads are open. Pulsing xenia seems to be the most sensitive of the bunch, hasn't resumed pulsing and doesn't seem to be as fluffy as before, but it didn't like my blasting of dinos off of it earlier in the week I suppose. Overall I feel like I've made steps in the right direction. Nothing is dying, everything seems to be improving.

The only thing that HASN'T improved, is my sandbed. I'd say it got a little worse this morning. My assumption is that my UV filter is helping the water column but what I'm doing isn't helping the sand at all. Any suggestions for targeting that part of the issue? Should I be trying to vacuum the sand into my filter socks? Buy more sand-sifting creatures?

 

[reeferfoxx]

The only thing that HASN'T improved, is my sandbed. I'd say it got a little worse this morning. My assumption is that my UV filter is helping the water column but what I'm doing isn't helping the sand at all. Any suggestions for targeting that part of the issue? Should I be trying to vacuum the sand into my filter socks? Buy more sand-sifting creatures?

Glad to hear your corals are looking better. I know xenia likes phosphates, as do ostreopsis, have you been monitoring that number?

The increase on the sandbed is common due to the availability of refuge and other organisms to pester. I would avoid any sand sifting creatures to limit any toxic ingestion. Also, with increased nutrients its not uncommon for dinos to reproduce more but in a less stressful manor. It's a last ditch effort to out compete other organisms. However, the joke is on the dinos. Those other organisms will eventually out compete them. You could siphone the sandbed or take a turkey baster to the sand to help keep the dinos in the water column. I recommend doing that 1 hour before lights out.

 

[Princess Hockey]

Glad to hear your corals are looking better. I know xenia likes phosphates, as do ostreopsis, have you been monitoring that number?

The increase on the sandbed is common due to the availability of refuge and other organisms to pester. I would avoid any sand sifting creatures to limit any toxic ingestion. Also, with increased nutrients its not uncommon for dinos to reproduce more but in a less stressful manor. It's a last ditch effort to out compete other organisms. However, the joke is on the dinos. Those other organisms will eventually out compete them. You could siphone the sandbed or take a turkey baster to the sand to help keep the dinos in the water column. I recommend doing that 1 hour before lights out.

My phosphates have been a steady 0.1 pretty much throughout all of this. I was expecting that to change a little bit after dosing the nitrates but haven't seen any change happen. Using the red sea pro test kit for that one.

I will definitely try to blast the sandbed before lights out to try and get some of this junk into the water column. Thank you!

Edit - As far as siphoning goes, any recommended technique? I got an airline tube and tried to do it that way, but it kept getting clogged with sand. Just try and suck it out with my turkey baster?

 

[reeferfoxx]

My phosphates have been a steady 0.1 pretty much throughout all of this. I was expecting that to change a little bit after dosing the nitrates but haven't seen any change happen. Using the red sea pro test kit for that one.

I will definitely try to blast the sandbed before lights out to try and get some of this junk into the water column. Thank you!

Sounds good

 

[Motohooligan]

I think I may have gone a bit to the extreme with nutrient levels. As of now I have 40ppm No3 and .30ppm Po4. Things are about the same. A fair amount of GHA but a lot of it is beginning to sluf off. Still a light brown dusting in a few areas of the sand and a few bubble spots in a couple spots on the rocks. I have reluctantly decided to turn the skimmer back on, in the past this has caused a major bloom in a few days, although at that point nutrient levels where very low. We will see how things look toward the end of the week. I would like to bring things down a bit but not sure I want to do a water change quite yet.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think I may have gone a bit to the extreme with nutrient levels. As of now I have 40ppm No3 and .30ppm Po4. Things are about the same. A fair amount of GHA but a lot of it is beginning to sluf off. Still a light brown dusting in a few areas of the sand and a few bubble spots in a couple spots on the rocks. I have reluctantly decided to turn the skimmer back on, in the past this has caused a major bloom in a few days, although at that point nutrient levels where very low. We will see how things look toward the end of the week. I would like to bring things down a bit but not sure I want to do a water change quite yet.

You could take a break from testing nutrients for a week and see how things go. I think if you see the hair algae grow even more, you could just stop dosing altogether. This is the point where I stopped dosing everything and let my tank adjust itself. After a month I began cleaning the tank and getting back into dosint alk and ca and performing regular water changes.

 

[OpenOcean33]

Ok guys, I have a semi success story? Been battling my amphidinium since may. I have tried nearly everything from absent water changes, vibrant reef cleaner, siphoning, h202 dosing, 3day black outs,... and so on. I resorted to trying dino x against all of my instincts and natural approach theory. It worked... I did a 3 day black out to weakened them and stirred the sand bed and after 3 doses it was 100% gone. So i dosed one more just to be safe. I then waited and waited and watched. Nothing, no dinos for 8 days perfect white sand bed and a little green algae on a frag plug. I then decided ok its time to get that dino x out of there so i did a 10 gallon water change on 69 gallon system. Next morning a light brown dusting of dinos seen in my tank. The next day i could see it was getting a little worse. So today I test the water and my nutrients are up phosphates are .12, and nitrates are .4. So i don't feel like i lowered the nutrients from the water change but maybe introduced trace elements for the possible dormant dinos in the tank to feed on... Should i try another round of dino x with no water change for some time or dose this seem like one of those bandied solutions kind of like the black out.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Ok guys, I have a semi success story? Been battling my amphidinium since may. I have tried nearly everything from absent water changes, vibrant reef cleaner, siphoning, h202 dosing, 3day black outs,... and so on. I resorted to trying dino x against all of my instincts and natural approach theory. It worked... I did a 3 day black out to weakened them and stirred the sand bed and after 3 doses it was 100% gone. So i dosed one more just to be safe. I then waited and waited and watched. Nothing, no dinos for 8 days perfect white sand bed and a little green algae on a frag plug. I then decided ok its time to get that dino x out of there so i did a 10 gallon water change on 69 gallon system. Next morning a light brown dusting of dinos seen in my tank. The next day i could see it was getting a little worse. So today I test the water and my nutrients are up phosphates are .12, and nitrates are .4. So i don't feel like i lowered the nutrients from the water change but maybe introduced trace elements for the possible dormant dinos in the tank to feed on... Should i try another round of dino x with no water change for some time or dose this seem like one of those bandied solutions kind of like the black out.

Dino X can be a bandaid. Actually, i think amphidinium is one dino that fauna marin confirmed it doesn't work against. Also, 0.4 nitrates is close to no nitrates. I would dose nitrates up to 10 and consider the diatom route. You need something to compete and silicates are your best chance.

 

[OpenOcean33]

Hmmm i was not aware of this, thank you for the information. I have been hesitant dosing the Si for some reason inducing a blood make me nervous haha. However the Dinos are very weak right now. So if you could pick dosing Si would be better than say beneficial bacteria, copepods, and phytoplankton? Also do we have any exact instructions on how to dose Si.?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Hmmm i was not aware of this, thank you for the information. I have been hesitant dosing the Si for some reason inducing a blood make me nervous haha. However the Dinos are very weak right now. So if you could pick dosing Si would be better than say beneficial bacteria, copepods, and phytoplankton? Also do we have any exact instructions on how to dose Si.?

A lot of people forget that diatoms are a temporary thing. Once the silicates run out, diatoms lose its food source. Not completely however, salt mixes contain silicates. Diatoms are also a food source for pods and snails. Overall unsightly but beneficial. Most other cases get beat out by hair algae. Personally, i would take diatoms over hair algae anyday.

This post in the amphidium thread has good instructions to get you started.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/d...tling-altogether.293318/page-129#post-4408748

 

[OpenOcean33]

A lot of people forget that diatoms are a temporary thing. Once the silicates run out, diatoms lose its food source. Not completely however, salt mixes contain silicates. Diatoms are also a food source for pods and snails. Overall unsightly but beneficial. Most other cases get beat out by hair algae. Personally, i would take diatoms over hair algae anyday.

This post in the amphidium thread has good instructions to get you started.
https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/dinoflagellates-–-are-you-tired-of-battling-altogether.293318/page-129#post-4408748

Okay maybe I can try dosing SI, get a Si test kit. Maybe i should buy some copepods and phytoplankton from algae barn because since i have had dinos I haven't seen any copepods. I do under the microscope tho when looking at the dinos.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Okay maybe I can try dosing SI, get a Si test kit. Maybe i should buy some copepods and phytoplankton from algae barn because since i have had dinos I haven't seen any copepods. I do under the microscope tho when looking at the dinos.

Also check out the first post of the amphidinium thread. Mosre information there as I didn't properly link it in my last post.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/

Unfortunately I seem to be the only help in both threads but all the information needed has been given. Just take things verbatim and dont add any twists to it. Sort of like when someone says to add more flow for cyano, doesn't mean add more flow, gfo, blasting sandbed, chemiclean, bottled bacteria, or other magical fixes. Just add more flow.

 

[OpenOcean33]

Also check out the first post of the amphidinium thread. Mosre information there as I didn't properly link it in my last post.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/amphidinium-dinoflagellate-treatment-methods.365850/

Unfortunately I seem to be the only help in both threads but all the information needed has been given. Just take things verbatim and dont add any twists to it. Sort of like when someone says to add more flow for cyano, doesn't mean add more flow, gfo, blasting sandbed, chemiclean, bottled bacteria, or other magical fixes. Just add more flow.

Okay, will order tonight and hope for the best. Also an after thought i had. Its been so long that when i got dinos the only two things i did differently at the time were adding RO/DI system in my house instead of buying from LFS and adding phytofeast. RO/DI water TS meter reads 0 i wonder what the chances of a bum filter would be and or if phytofeast just bloomed the dinos by I dunno I'm overthinking all this. SI for now and SI only for now.

 

[reeferfoxx]

Okay, will order tonight and hope for the best. Also an after thought i had. Its been so long that when i got dinos the only two things i did differently at the time were adding RO/DI system in my house instead of buying from LFS and adding phytofeast. RO/DI water TS meter reads 0 i wonder what the chances of a bum filter would be and or if phytofeast just bloomed the dinos by I dunno I'm overthinking all this. SI for now and SI only for now.

From what I can tell, you added real reef rock which was manufactured to only contain bacteria. Which is fine but im not sure what kind if sand you added. One thing you didn't add was microbial diversity. One thing completely different from freshwater environments to saltwater is the organisms. Unlike plants, corals come from different regions of the ocean. Those regions have a vast population of organisms that most freahwater tanks dont see. Not to sound confusing however, do share similar organisms like plankton, cyano, diatoms, chrysosphytes, pods, and inverts. In reefing, to counteract plague type algeas that hitchhike from those regions, organims need to be established. Unfortunately, dinos thrive in sterile environments brought on by dry rock and manufactured rock. Our hobby needs more real ocean live rock to help keep dinos and cyano from popping up.