Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Paullawr]

I started reading through this thread about a month ago when my 180g started showing signs of a bloom. My p04 had dropped to zero, but my nitrates remained at about 10ppm. I started siphoning the sand into a filter sock twice a week to help remove the dinos and I bought 2 bottles of NeoPhos to start dosing. I followed the formula on the bottle and ended up overdosing by quite a bit. My target was .12 and I ended up at .3. I have just been letting it come down slowly and now about 10 days later I am at .067. The dinos have definitely taken a hit and I am seeing less and less everyday with an increase in hair algae and diatoms. My question is how long should I be dosing to keep the p04 levels at .1? Until I no longer see any dinos at all? At this point it takes about 3 days after I siphon to see a very light accumulation on the sand. I would say I have about a 75% reduction now. I do have a UV running in my sump 24/7. I am not seeing many dinos on my rockwork and most of the corals that were covered daily are now dino free. Thanks for this thread, it has helped me to get this under control fairly quickly.

With dosing just continue to keep it detectable. I think the long term plan is to run aquarium at that level. Some do say you can lower it again, but that seems counter intuitive.

 

[Paullawr]

Sorry it should work now. I will turn off the fuge lights next. I didnt want them to go back to the DT.

It looks like prorocentrum based on movement.

 

[Paullawr]

I have been battling against various crud for a while. Familiar story, I think: started with dry white dead rock, ran zero nitrates and phosphates for too long and opportunistic organisms took over. Once I realized I was too low on nitrates and phosphates, I started dosing both. I have kept 0.04 to .1 ppm phosphate and 5 ppm nitrate for a few weeks now ands I am seeing positive changes, I think. The original light brown wispy Dinos are gone, to be replaced by some red Cyano and (most prominently) a rusty brown stringy something. I have some pictures I would appreciate some hep with.

I am using an antique early 1880s Yawman and Erbe Nonpareil microscope that was my grandfather's (he was a microbiologist). It is a lot of fun using it after all these years for what it was intended. It forms a really nice image but it is dreadfully difficult to take a picture through it as I think the eye-relief is really low. Anyways please take a look. I see Dinos I think in both images, but it is not the predominant species for sure. What are the connected rod-like creatures? Also, in the second image, is that blue-green thread Cyano?

Thanks for your help. This thread has been a great resource in my battle.

Sweet scope.

 

[Ernie C]

Our losing fight with ostreopsis.

We have been battling the dreaded ostreopsis for over a year. They always start at the top of our LR in the aquarium (300g, see below). I don't see any trace
of them on the sand bed, mostly diatoms there. We don't strive for a ULN system, I would like a balance.

What we have tried.
1: Blackouts, nope
2: Blackout with Dr. Tim's recipe for dino's, no lasting effect
3: Inoculating the tank with Garf Grunge. Short term positive impact.
4: Ozone, Hit or miss, but the water is clear.
5: ... I'm sure we have done other things
6: Dirty method part I. Helped for a while
7. Currently, dirty method part II. Part 2 is simply really dirty where we are now.. No3 ~40, P04 .09

We are losing all of our corals. I've really given up on them recovering. I'm hoping we can salvage the LR and not
reboot the system.

I'm not at all comfortable with our No3 and P04 levels. Another swing in the dark here, I'm going to try the Prodibio Digest
to bring our good bacteria back. I can't do water changes to lower our nutrients. The water change is what brought on our
latest round.

We have tried all sorts of profiles on a Radion's, more light always means more dino's. I would like to get our Acros back and I'm tired of a light blue tank.
We have tried setting our pumps to high and low flow. Can't really tell a difference.

Any thoughts, advice, prayers, are needed.

Tank: Setup 2yrs
300g w/sump
4x Radion Gen 3 pro
3 MP40
1 MP60
Reef Octopus Varios-8 Return
Reef Octopus Skimmer (don't remember the specific number)
Full Apex controller
Geo's Reef Ozone Controller

Kh 10
Calc 400
Mg 1250
--> N03 ~40 (Sailfert)
--> Po4 .09 (Hanna Checker)
ORP ~309
PH 8.1 to 8.3
Temp 78.5
Salinity 1.025

Refugium, DSB Chaeto.

Cyclopeeze 3x Day (We have 2 biota mandarins to feed)
Pellet food mid day (spectrum, not much)
Rods at night

Coral, most of them are dead or dieing
5 Anthias
Ruby Wrasse
Powder Blue Tang
2 Biota Mandarins
Goby/Pistol Pair
2 Clowns
Coral Beauty

I identified ostreopsis with my microscope, I also lost a lot of sps frags, right now I don’t see dinos in my tank. Here is what I did. But I have a small tank. It’s total volume including refugium is like 90 gallons.

I raised my no3 to above 4ppm and po4 to .4 I then stopped dosing anything. I reduced lighting by 50% intensity and reduced light cycle from 12 to 8 hours. I turned off all the power heads and just left the return pump on and that kept the Dinos in specific spots that I would syphon out through a filter sock nightly. Eventually got them down quite a bit but they would still show up but a lot less. With little flow they would clump in spots so I easily got them out. Then I started using Dino X. After the first two treatments I could barely see any. I did a total of 4 treatments and then installed a UV and plan to leave it there for a few more weeks. I don’t see any anymore but don’t know if they are still there lingering for a chance to strike. Not sure if this would work for you but these are the steps I took. I’ve been dealing with this since mid February so about a month and a half. I haven’t done a water change yet but plan on one now. Good luck

 

[William1034]

Did you identify under a microscope ? Ostreopsis a uv sterlizer is your best solution along with biodiversity. Most say it's nearly gone over night with a uv.

Positive ID under a microscope. My Jebao 55watt comes today. What kind of flow should I use?

 

[Ento-Reefer]

With dosing just continue to keep it detectable. I think the long term plan is to run aquarium at that level. Some do say you can lower it again, but that seems counter intuitive.

So what you are saying is just don’t let P04 hit zero again right? I think my long term plan will be to make sure it stays between .06-.1. I am getting a thick coating of green film on the front glass every day now, but I would rather have that then deal with dinos. Thanks.

 

[dwest]

Sorry it should work now. I will turn off the fuge lights next. I didnt want them to go back to the DT.

I would suck out as many as you can, then shut off lights. Good luck!

 

[dwest]

Update for me.. I have raised my phosphate to around .1 and testing frequently to make sure it doesn't sway from that number. I installed a UV Sterilizer and 90% of the display cleared up in less than a week. I still have dinos in the frag tank and in the refugium. It seems the lowest flow areas are the worst which would make sense the UV cannot get to them. Here is a video of what is in the refugium. Can anyone help identify if this still looks like prorocentrum or if this is another strand?

I can see the video now. I’m not an ID person though. Maybe @taricha can help. In the meantime, maybe the following link will help you out.

http://www.algaeid.com/identification/

 

[dwest]

So what you are saying is just don’t let P04 hit zero again right? I think my long term plan will be to make sure it stays between .06-.1. I am getting a thick coating of green film on the front glass every day now, but I would rather have that then deal with dinos. Thanks.

I agree about not letting phosphates hit zero. I am a recovering dino person as well. I just make sure I have measurable phosphates and nitrates. The number doesn’t really matter to me. As long as I don’t add any nitrate and phosphate reducers, my system typically maintains measurable nutrients. However, I have to keep measuring as my system went back to zero phosphates when I dosed silica and again when I dosed prazipro.

 

[dwest]

Positive ID under a microscope. My Jebao 55watt comes today. What kind of flow should I use?

See post #6996

 

[Paullawr]

So what you are saying is just don’t let P04 hit zero again right? I think my long term plan will be to make sure it stays between .06-.1. I am getting a thick coating of green film on the front glass every day now, but I would rather have that then deal with dinos. Thanks.

Thats exactly what im saying. That green film is feeding larger zooplankton. The nutrients are feeding that film and smaller planktonic organisms.

Between them they occupy space and consume nutrients. You are effectively turning your tank in to the battle of the fittest.

Heres the thing. Dinos arnt that good at outcompeting. They lose a lot on turf warfare. At the moment it looks likes it all lost but thats because they have had free reign.

When you take a sanple of sand you may see one pod vs 70 cells. At smaller magnification similar results. We need to change that.

A film of algae being wiped should be part of enjoyment of the tank and not a chore. Whilst clearing glass take a few minutes to see whats going on in that slice of ocean.

Do remember though, they can and will bounce back. You may have more than one strain and when you beat one back another becomes the dominant organism. From the outside in that looks like your efforts are not showing results.
Not true.

 

[OpenOcean33]

See post #6996

Holy moly lol, 7k posts it's almost time to condense the new info and open a new thread to weed out the old info

 

[Paullawr]

This thread was born from the original dino thread for the very same reason.

Probably is time someone started a new thread. Havent seen the op in ages either.

 

[taricha]

Thanks for your help. This thread has been a great resource in my battle.

Lemme poke around and see if we can exclude a toxic diatom (rare like stringy diatoms, but they do exist).

The diatoms are not the toxic stringy diatoms I was thinking of, Pseudonitzschia. Should be okay to add herbivore grazers.

Here is a video of what is in the refugium. Can anyone help identify if this still looks like prorocentrum or if this is another strand?

this still looks like prorocentrum.

 

[Reefgirl79]

Jebao is big and cheap and effective. I'd get a smaller higher quality uv for daily/weekly use, and hook up the jabao bazooka when/if I needed to knock back dinos with a zillion watts. I know of no other use where that much wattage of UV is helpful, and I doubt the jebao would hold up to 24/7 use.


Remove strings from corals. stringy dinos on coral causes livestock losses so fast.
put the coral wherever your UV is. people are reporting helpful effects with Dr Tim's. Stop adding phyto/pods while you have toxic dinos. they catch the phyto and pods in their toxic mucus and use the nutrients from dead phyto/pods to feed their bloom.
Only use blackout if you are doing it in conjunction with UV to push dinos into water. keep it 48hr or less regardless.
If you are growing green algae now, great. Start exporting matter, dino, algae whatever. create competition.


post a pics (microscope and problem area) of the dinos. don't assume sand population and the ones on rock or up high are the same.
you can vacuum sand into a bucket and discard it - water changes aren't THAT big of a deal. If you want to avoid them and keep the sand, run uv in bucket then run water from bucket through UV back to sump. you can quick dip the sand in freshwater for 10 sec, then return it if you want. this should lyse nearly all dino cells.
Yes. rarely, people have had health effects from toxic dinos. irritated skin, respiratory, etc. many report a "dino smell" with toxic blooms. use gloves if you have evidence or suspect a toxic bloom and you intend to have hands in tank.


yes. run a scrubber. if it grows dinos, great - easy to export dinos that way. (you can run 660nm red light on your scrubber to favor green algae and disfavor browns.) It's important to be exporting somehow.


what strain is that? and don't dose phyto/pods while fighting dinos. Sounds like a good idea, but the pods end up like this.

That was a live pod that didn't stay live for long due to toxic prorocentrum dinos and mucus covering him.

Everything I have read has advised pods and phyto are the best course of action, they are the number one competitor to dino and i have to say that so far my dino's have already lowered since adding them and light change.

My nutrients are finally detectable too.

 

[Ernie C]

So it’s been a week with no signs of stringy Dino’s but I sucked some water off the rocks and found one single Dino in the sample under a microscope. I still have the 55 watt UV running. Will they always be preset waiting to take over again?

 

[Paullawr]

So it’s been a week with no signs of stringy Dino’s but I sucked some water off the rocks and found one single Dino in the sample under a microscope. I still have the 55 watt UV running. Will they always be preset waiting to take over again?

Hi Ernie

Need to accept will always be in a tank and blooms may occur. Each time something is added you run the probable risk of introducing.

 

[Meg012]

Hello! Wondering if anyone might be able to help me

I've been battling dinos since about January. At first I thought it was cyano or diatoms but as weeks progressed and I did my weekly water change, the algae grew insanely worse (I've now learned dinos love water changes).

For the past month or so, my local reef store owner has been graciously helping me with the issue, but he has me doing blackout after blackout (I've done 4) to absolutely no avail. We did discover I was buying RO water for my tank, and not RO/DI water, so I bought an RO/DI unit about a month ago to fix that problem, which he thought would fix the dinos , this also didn't work. The blackouts help but a few weeks after the blackout, the dinos come back with vengeance. He advises me to do more blackouts, but they aren't working. His advice unfortunately is only putting a bandaid on my problem I think, so I've come here for help.

I was hoping to get an ID on my dinos, I very much assume they are large cell amphidinium dinos, based on what I've researched but wanted advice from reefers that seem to have extremely helpful advice on dealing with dinos and giving a proper ID (and possible advice on how to start fighting them to get rid of them?)

The images included are what my dinos look like under a microscope. I also included what they look like in the tank.

Nitrates are registering at 5 PPM and Phos is about 0.1 (trying the dirty method currently).




An ID would be amazing if possible so I can try and figure out how to tackle this, thanks in advance!

 

[mfollen]

Can someone please help me with an ID here. I’d really appreciate it so I can solidify a plan of attack.

Thank you everyone so much....

 

[Ernie C]

Can someone please help me with an ID here. I’d really appreciate it so I can solidify a plan of attack.

Thank you so much..

I can’t see them too clearly but they look like mine which are ostreopsis