Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[ScottB]

So this is interesting... skipped dosing nitrates today because I’m reading 2ppm now. Plus phosphates are going up now? How is that? I’m not dosing. Not feeding a huge amount. I have been adding 27ml of neonitro daily to start reading nitrates again and po4 was going down but now started coming back up oddly. And adding phyto + mb7 daily.. Is that due to dying dinos? Maybe they release it back into the system?

I am surprised. I'd have thought that dosing nitrate would LOWER PO4 at least initially. Also thought the MB7 would be knocking it down a little.

Perhaps it is the phyto.

How are the dinos looking? Anything noticeable there?

 

[Drumstin]

I am surprised. I'd have thought that dosing nitrate would LOWER PO4 at least initially. Also thought the MB7 would be knocking it down a little.

Perhaps it is the phyto.

How are the dinos looking? Anything noticeable there?

They are slowing a bit but I have a huge outbreak. I just bought a gravel vacuum (awesome) and it has a small attachment on the intake that makes it easy to suck off the rocks. My next plan is to suck them into a bucket and then filter it before putting the water back in the tank. All attempts to filter these guys have failed. Found an article that shows the exact dimensions (see below) of my species and anything lower than 30 microns in theory should do it. So I’m going to try running it through a spare ro filter I have using my carbon filter housing and testing what gets through it. If that works I expect I’ll be able to put a huge dent in these guys. The more I deal with these guys the more I hate them and devote my life to their eradication!

 

[H3rm1tCr@b]

Great news, I believe that I beat dinoflagellates! Like many have said in the past, a UV sterilizer was the kick in the pants that my tank needed. I set it up last night and haven't seen any all day! I believe that the type I had was NOT Ostreopsis (I looked under a microscope, it looked different than the little seed type I had last time). This specific variety that I had was much less toxic to invertebrates, the only ones that were seemingly affected were the limpets (some died or got very weak). It did however kill 95% of my pulsing xenia, my elegance (rip), and my gorgonian finally kicked the bucket. I believe that the type I had was Alexandrium Fundyense. It wasn't clear though so I may not ever know the exact type. Like others that respond favorably to UV radiation, it would completely dissipate into the water column at night. Anyway, the corals look a little better and I can't wait to restock my cute little tank with pretty things! (Maybe I will try my sixth or something anemone, but I will wait until the corals look better and I am confident that the universe won't kill it like every other time I've tried one!)

 

[Drumstin]

They are slowing a bit but I have a huge outbreak. I just bought a gravel vacuum (awesome) and it has a small attachment on the intake that makes it easy to suck off the rocks. My next plan is to suck them into a bucket and then filter it before putting the water back in the tank. All attempts to filter these guys have failed. Found an article that shows the exact dimensions (see below) of my species and anything lower than 30 microns in theory should do it. So I’m going to try running it through a spare ro filter I have using my carbon filter housing and testing what gets through it. If that works I expect I’ll be able to put a huge dent in these guys. The more I deal with these guys the more I hate them and devote my life to their eradication!

Ok can someone tell me how they are getting through a 1 micron filter? Geez...

 

[ScottB]

Ok can someone tell me how they are getting through a 1 micron filter? Geez...

I don't know the answer to your question.

If you think you are extracting dinos from the sandbed with your vacuum, makes me ponder a way to run that dino loaded water through a UV. A bit laborious but with that slow of throughput, you would have sufficient contact to nuke 'em.

 

[Drumstin]

I don't know the answer to your question.

If you think you are extracting dinos from the sandbed with your vacuum, makes me ponder a way to run that dino loaded water through a UV. A bit laborious but with that slow of throughput, you would have sufficient contact to nuke 'em.

I tried that last night but either my uv wasn’t good enough or it just isn’t as effective. Examination under scope showed they were alive still.

however, I just ran them through a second time into another bucket and think now that my filter canister may have just still been full of them from using it for carbon. Now it’s starting to come out cleaner.. before and after shots.. when I light the water up I can see the dinos with my naked eye now.

 

[Drumstin]

Beautiful, but I still hate them.

 

[saltyhog]

Ok can someone tell me how they are getting through a 1 micron filter? Geez...

A 1 micron is way over kill! The smallest dinos are around 10 microns as I recall (don't hold me to that). I use a big 5 micron sock (7"x 18") in a Brute with this sock holder.

I use a gravel vacuum (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-clean-gravel-wash-with-squeeze-starter-python.html) and I can vacuum 25 gallons up in 10 minutes or so. Use a Sicce pump to pump it back in the tank.

 

[saltyhog]

This question has brought up one for me. Is it possible to get dinos like amphidinium off of sand. I had amphidinium and once it got down to the "dusty" appearance I had a difficult time seeing on my microscopic slides. I would put about a tablespoon of dirty sand in a small plastic vial with just enough tank water to cover it. I would shake it violently for a minute or so and could usually only see 4-5 dinos in a whole slide....mainly saw detritus and diatoms.

So......how do you recommend preparing a slide of dinos growing on a sand bed.?

 

[drawman]

A 1 micron is way over kill! The smallest dinos are around 10 microns as I recall (don't hold me to that). I use a big 5 micron sock (7"x 18") in a Brute with this sock holder.

I use a gravel vacuum (https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/pro-clean-gravel-wash-with-squeeze-starter-python.html) and I can vacuum 25 gallons up in 10 minutes or so. Use a Sicce pump to pump it back in the tank.

This is helping you filter out the dinos? For some reason I thought dinos generally get through low micron filter socks.

 

[saltyhog]

This is helping you filter out the dinos? For some reason I thought dinos generally get through low micron filter socks.

I haven't tried it for dinos yet but thinking about it. If dinos can be dislodged from the sand they can't pass through the filter if they are larger than the filter size. I'm pretty sure all dinos are larger than 5 microns. I think it's an interesting question. What do you think @Scott b

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

When dosing MB7 with dinos (LC Amphidinium), do you dose the high dose (5ml:20gal daily) or the low/maintenance (5:50 weekly)?

 

[Arthur_Dent]

When dosing MB7 with dinos (LC Amphidinium), do you dose the high dose (5ml:20gal daily) or the low/maintenance (5:50 weekly)?

I dosed the high dose, and it seemed to work for me. Check my build log.

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

I dosed the high dose, and it seemed to work for me. Check my build log.

How bad did it hit your N and P? Mine has been steady after almost 2 months of dosing, I'm assuming other trace elements have been taken up.

Trying to see if I need to keep a very close eye on nutrients again.

 

[Arthur_Dent]

How bad did it hit your N and P? Mine has been steady after almost 2 months of dosing, I'm assuming other trace elements have been taken up.

Trying to see if I need to keep a very close eye on nutrients again.

Almost not at all, to be honest. I was only skimming at night, and skimming pretty dry. When the dinos finally died, my phosphate and nitrate spiked to about 2.5ppm and 25ppm. It's all in the build thread linked to in my bio.

 

[ScottB]

I haven't tried it for dinos yet but thinking about it. If dinos can be dislodged from the sand they can't pass through the filter if they are larger than the filter size. I'm pretty sure all dinos are larger than 5 microns. I think it's an interesting question. What do you think @Scott b

I don't have direct experience with amphids, so have not tried any of these extraction methods and determined efficacy. Anecdotally, I have not heard of success with filtration via micron socks, but intuitively it seems reasonable. It kinda comes down to your other question about clinging to the sand.

 

[saltyhog]

I don't have direct experience with amphids, so have not tried any of these extraction methods and determined efficacy. Anecdotally, I have not heard of success with filtration via micron socks, but intuitively it seems reasonable. It kinda comes down to your other question about clinging to the sand.

Agree, that was the question I hoped you could answer. Surely there are many people who have had amphidinium....at least a couple should be able to tell us how they acquired their sample that showed so many dinos. Maybe I really don't have any and all that I'm seeing on my sand is diatoms.

 

[AbjectMaelstroM]

I've done several WCs through a 5 micron sock. While I was able to siphon some dinos, majority was just detritus and the following day the dinos were back in full force, if not stronger.

I've got a ton of LC aphids.

 

[Drumstin]

With the Prorocentrum lima I’m dealing with, I can tell you my problem is not pulling a ton out. When I siphon sand I get tons out. But filtering them out afterwards is tricky. These buggers get through somehow. Thankfully not all of them. So yesterday I did the whole sand bed into two 5 gallon buckets. I filtered it with the 1 micron into another bucket and then back and forth 3 passes and it seems to get quite a lot out. Still a ton on my rock work and one day of lights means the sand is nasty again. So not sure how effective this is going to be. Might have to go ahead and do blackout. Was hoping not to have to do that.

 

[ScottB]

With the Prorocentrum lima I’m dealing with, I can tell you my problem is not pulling a ton out. When I siphon sand I get tons out. But filtering them out afterwards is tricky. These buggers get through somehow. Thankfully not all of them. So yesterday I did the whole sand bed into two 5 gallon buckets. I filtered it with the 1 micron into another bucket and then back and forth 3 passes and it seems to get quite a lot out. Still a ton on my rock work and one day of lights means the sand is nasty again. So not sure how effective this is going to be. Might have to go ahead and do blackout. Was hoping not to have to do that.

I recall that you have a UV, but somehow you question whether or not it is working effectively. A blackout is a good idea if the prorocentrum aren't taking to the WC at night. But unless the UV is effective it is a waste.
So just checking:
a) bulb is <12 months old
b) 1 watt per 3 gallons
c) to/from affected display (not in line through return pump)
d) slow flow. depending on size 2-300 gph.