Dinoflagellates my experience......h2o2 reefing tool!!!!!

[Russ265]

No it was alot, not on the walls or anything. I took a brush and scrubbed the rocks. Not as much for the bacteria would be lost. But I got rid of mine and did a heck of a waterchange.

you didnt have dinos then

 

[Amit Kumar]

YOU DON'T KNOW MY LIFE

 

[Dtackett]

only had to battle with dino once. doesed h202 at 1 ml per 10 gallons day 1, then 1 ml per 20 gallons daily for a week. it was a 75 gallon system, I did 2 1 gallon water changes daily to keep tank in check without feeding the dino much. I pulled the rocks with dino out and rinsed them under fresh rodi and bushed them off with a soft bristle brush, and used a soft toothbrush on any coral that had dino on it. every day the dinos died a bit more, used the water changes as a way to siphon out as much dino as I could then manual removal. took a full week and a ton of work but I got it taken care of with no loses just some mad coral. but it worked.

 

[Homebrwr]

I was going to start an ID post and then came across this one. Would this be considered dino's?
Its on the top part of rocks. I have been battling this to no avail. siphoning brushing and it just keeps coming back. Its more or a traslucent white and is slimy.
Thanks in advance for any help. Also cause??? Very frustrated !!!!

 

[Ectogamut]

Are you carbon dosing or using any bacterial additives? That looks awfully strange to be dinos. Are you using any 2-part supplements or perhaps kalkwasser? Perhaps it's precipitation from not having Ca/Alk/Mag balanced.

 

[Homebrwr]

I do not carbon dose. I dose bionic 2part.
A buddy of mine told mine to pick up salifert test kits for alk and Ca..
I have been testing but he doesn't trust what I have been using.
He also said it's not dinos...

 

[Ectogamut]

Although my experience is somewhat limited, I've been battling dinos for well over 3 months now, and from the mountains of research I've done on the topic I've never come across anything like that that's been labeled as dinos. I'm not saying it isn't, mind you, but the only characteristics I see that the two share are that there are some bubbles formed in it and it comes back after you scrub/siphon it.

 

[Homebrwr]

Thanks... For the input. I will move on and leave this thread to the dino battles..
Hopefully I'll never need this thread in the future...

 

[Russ265]

Thanks... For the input. I will move on and leave this thread to the dino battles..
Hopefully I'll never need this thread in the future...

could be dinos. there are over 2000 species of dinoflagellates.
could also be a weird cyano.

id take a test rock and throw it in a bucket of chemiclean with your tank water and observe.

could also be some sort of fungus (doubtful)

i had a patch of gha in one of my overflows that was white/clear but it eventually melted away when i first started my tank.

best option is find someone with a microscope.

 

[Homebrwr]

Should I just let it sit there in the bucket or add some flow?
TY

 

[Russ265]

Should I just let it sit there in the bucket or add some flow?
TY

slight flow if you can. nothing too strong.
itll also need light. use a cfl lamp preferably 4-6500

if it kicks it back a ton you know it is bacterial.

if not. try another bucket. same settings. drop h202 in there. if that kicks it back. most likely a weird dino or phyto.

make sure both tests use tank water.

 

[mcarroll]

Good thread!

Thinking about this treatment myself, so had to read the whole thread. Had a few thoughts after reading....

Stabilizers
One interesting quote from here after I searched for hydrogen peroxide stabilizer:

"Drug store/grocery store grade hydrogen peroxide, available in a 3 percent solution is always stabilized to increase shelf life of the product. For this reason it is not an appropriate solution for use in food preparation or the cleaning of food preparation surfaces or equipment.

[....]it is well known that the most common stabilizer of H202 is acetanilide. Other agents known to be used as stabilizers include phenol, tin, Colloidal stannate, organophosphonates, and nitrate."​

I know I don't want to add phosphates or nitrates along with my "cure"! And I doubt that adding phenol, tin, stannate (?!) or acetanilide will do the tank any good either.

Sounds like food-grade h2o2 would be highly recommended, in spite of the shorter shelf life.

Not sure I have access to food-grade h2o2, but will ask the pharmacist/druggist/chemist if I can't find it on the shelf.

Light + H2O2
I also wanted to repost a great PDF (dated 1984!) from the Aquatic Plants Management Society (APMS) that someone linked near the beginning of the thread, but that was apparently ignored (or at least not used or referenced) by everyone...perhaps because the title wasn't posted.

Here's the link (PDF) with the title:

Photo-enhancement of Hydrogen Peroxide Toxicity to Submersed Vascular Plants and Algae​

Of the people who had less luck with h2o2 treatment, I think there are two likely causes:

1. The black-outs that were frequently used throughout the thread as a co-treatment.
2. Lots of folks seem to dose at night.

Both would eliminate, or dampen, the photo-enhancement effect.

It's been mentioned that there could be an odd-ball dinoflagellate species at work which happens to be immune/less susceptible to h2o2. But according to the observations @Pants has been making, there seem to be only three types at work, so the "odd-ball" theory is dubious at present IMO.

From my interpretation of the APMS link, it appears that the peroxide is quickly (~ 1hr exposure) consumed by the plants in question. This would make for a possible explanation why critters like acans, favia and anemones seem to be somewhat susceptible to h2o2 treatment - they all "inflate" with seawater, or in the case of Favia they polyp out at night. If the seawater happens to be jacked up with h2o2 when they injest it, then the critter probably gets a serious free-radical problem and could suffer the same fate as the algae/plants in the APMS PDF....bleach and die.

Seems like this could be in the Chemistry section.

 

[FF337]

Is the verdict a 3 day lights out/ blackout and dose 1ml per 10 gallons of tank water but dose 3% peroxide for a full three days at the 1ml to 10 gallon rate?

 

[graham_kyle1]

Is the verdict a 3 day lights out/ blackout and dose 1ml per 10 gallons of tank water but dose 3% peroxide for a full three days at the 1ml to 10 gallon rate?

It'll help....I let PO4 build up and let GHA grow...while dosing H2O2...seemed more effective. My dinos seem to be gone.

 

[mcarroll]

Anyone actually have "Food Grade" h2o2 and know where to get it?

I gather it's available, but ironically not through food outlets like grocery stores or pharmacies. My local pharmacist's eyes crossed when I asked about it. He literally asked if there were "...any pet stores left"...and if so, "...they might have something like that." That's equal parts sad and funny. Bittersweet?

 

[brandon429]

I have bought gallons of food grade peroxide from the local health food store they will even sell it to my kid if I send her in its 35%

it is an instant blinding agent and we must wear goggles it's not worth the risk

it is sold as a fruit wash and diluted bath additive. One of the most topically dangerous otc liquids one can buy comes from the refrigerated isle section near the coconut milk.

Regarding the stabilizers its not like they are being excluded in several other contamination routes, for example my shrimp food adds trace copper in safe form. Due to years and number of tanks using non food grade I think two patterns emerge

contaminants don't matter and nothing bad is happening to your bacteria

 

[007Bond]

Hey guys,...I have a question,....when treating/dipping a new coral frag on a plug to kill off any algaes,...is the h202 diluted to the 1ml @ gal or full strength or what is the recommended ratio to use?
Thanks in advance,---Rick

 

[brandon429]

for the actual coral flesh portion, a valid hitchhiker space for dinos, use the dilution dip. for the hard parts of the frag plug/nonliving areas use the full strength imo since we are trying to kill as best we can. I might add though, in many ways it doesn't do much total good to detail on frags as a dip since dinos ride in on the slime coating of fish, there are amazing macro pics on the web of fish with dino cells dotted on their sides after being moved among tanks. this stuff is nasty infecting hitchhiker

 

[007Bond]

Thanks Brandon,...I was also reading your thoughts on the id thread https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/helpful-method-for-identifying-dinoflagellates.216508 ,..I usually dip new bought frags in Bayer...will this kill any algaes?
Thanks,---Rick

 

[brandon429]

Rick just saw this post from last week sorry missed it! I don't have any prior examples of bayer killing algae or dinos it seems to be targeting flatworms specifically