Dinoflagellates my experience......h2o2 reefing tool!!!!!

[allabout]

I just added my third dose and I must say I'm cautiously optimistic. I'm also at about hour 30 of a total blackout period for my tank so it could be related to both. It's not completely gone yet but looks much better. I'll start lights again today and keep dosing and see how it goes.

 

[allabout]

Okay just figured I'd update. My problem is about 90% gone now. It's not totally gone but I've done 4 doses and it looks sooooo much better. I'm hoping a couple more doses will completely knock it out. Here's pictures of the same general area as from my previous post in the same order:

 

[dedubya]

How does this work on GHA?

 

[allabout]

How does this work on GHA?

Well I read through the entire thread before I started and I seem to recall that most people said dosing the tank does not work on GHA. That seems to be the case for me too, as I still have very small patches of GHA after dosing. I do think that some said that they had luck spot treating GHA with peroxide though, either in a 50% dip or pouring it directly on GHA, and that that killed it. But I don't know this from experience.

 

[Tiggy]

Hi guys,

I did read all pages but I am still a bit confused.

I understand you don't have to stop everything (skimmer, biopellets; carbon, gfo, ...) before adding h2o2, right?
Since light break h2o2 down faster is it better to add it when lights are out?
Should I add it diretly to the tank or in the sump?
Should I syphon most out daily (if yes ... how to track results then?)?

I also would like to post some pics from my tank and some pic taken with my small microscope; those things you see are round dots moving around (magnified 600x) so I assume those are dynos?

I didn't add h2o2 yet since i thought it might be cyano and added mycocidol (i think that's how it is called) 3 days ago and no change ... will do water change tomorrow to get rid of most of the meds I added allready and restart po4x4 & avtivated carbon. Anti Algea-X didn't do anything eather.

I ll keep you all posted :)

 

[schroedel]

Hello everyone. I finally read through the whole thread and am jumping on the band wagon.My tank is 10 mo old and I am tired of fighting what seems to be a loosing battle. It seems I have tried everything.I am on my second day of dosing h2o2.fingers crossed. First can someone positively ID what I am fighting?Dino? This is my last desparate attempt at fixing this problem. LFS also suggested addings Dr.Tims Eco-Balance.(already did regiment of Waste Away and Re-Freash plus many other things) Can I add this while dosing the h2o2 or should I wait till after the treatment?My previous tank was up for 20yrs and never had this much trouble!!! Thank you

 

[Pants]

Thats an interesting photo. Do they stay in chains like that or was that a coincidence that they were all lined up when you took the shot? Google Alexandrium catenella and tell me if they look like that to you.

I'd like a sample if possible. I could send you some tubes with a return envelop if you PM me an address to send the tubes to.

 

[Tiggy]

I assume you are talking about my microscope pics? Some were in chain, others weren't.

I live in Belgium so this might be a little problem for you + this pic was taken 2-3 weeks ago (using a microscope I bought as kid and my iphone lol); I added so many things to the aquarium that I would have to check first :)

Maybe I ll check this afternoon. Unless you aren't talking about my post off course :)
What I saw under the microscope might be what you are refering to; it looks alot if not 100% like this: http://cimt.ucsc.edu/habid/phytolist_dinoflag/1alexandrium.html

 

[Pants]

Yup tiggy I was talking about your post.

Belgium might be hard to do. I'll have to look into it a bit. The samples that are nearby often take too long to arrive alive so I'd have to try something different.

I've looked at a few Dino blooms so far and none have been like yours so it would be interesting to get a look at.

 

[saifbham]

Hello Tiggy and Schroedel,

Schroedel, from the images you have posted I can say with some confidence that that is indeed dinoflagellates. Tiggy I am less sure about yours. Cyanobacteria as well as dinoflagellates may appear as chains under a microscope.

In both cases however, I would recommend removing as much as possible (sucking it up while siphoning water out of the tank) followed by addition of 1ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water. You should look for any adverse reactions exhibited by your corals. Please read my post on page 39 for some reactions I observed after addition of H2O2. As long as these reaction disappear say under an hour it should be fine.

Remember, dinoflagellates dying may release toxins into the water and adversely affect corals and invertebrates.

H2O2 may be more effective in light and there are a few studies using cyanobacteria I believe that show this. I cannot remember the exact papers as I read them quite a while ago. However, as light will promote dinoflagellates reappearing I would keep the tank in dark for 3 days initially.




In short here is what I suggest, remove as much as possible (more than 95%, make sure you leave little to die in the tank) and keep the tank in dark for 3 days. Add 1ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water once a day while maintaining the tank in dark. After 3 days the lights may be switched on (I am assuming you have corals) and if the corals have not respond poorly, the dosing should be increased to 1.5ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water twice a day about 8 hours apart at least. Keep water ready for a large water change in case of large amounts of dinoflagellates die within the tank.

I hope this is helpful,

Saif

 

[schroedel]

Hello Tiggy and Schroedel,

Schroedel, from the images you have posted I can say with some confidence that that is indeed dinoflagellates.
In short here is what I suggest, remove as much as possible (more than 95%, make sure you leave little to die in the tank) and keep the tank in dark for 3 days. Add 1ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water once a day while maintaining the tank in dark. After 3 days the lights may be switched on (I am assuming you have corals) and if the corals have not respond poorly, the dosing should be increased to 1.5ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water twice a day about 8 hours apart at least. Keep water ready for a large water change in case of large amounts of dinoflagellates die within the tank.

I hope this is helpful,

Saif

Thank you so much Saif!!
I am on the right track as to be following this course of action. I will make some water tomorrow just in case. It has been 3 days and all looks good so far. I am running carbon while doing this to help remove toxins for the small die off. I think the tank may be looking a tiny bit better. Fingers crossed!!

 

[Tiggy]

Hello Tiggy and Schroedel,

Schroedel, from the images you have posted I can say with some confidence that that is indeed dinoflagellates. Tiggy I am less sure about yours. Cyanobacteria as well as dinoflagellates may appear as chains under a microscope.

In both cases however, I would recommend removing as much as possible (sucking it up while siphoning water out of the tank) followed by addition of 1ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water. You should look for any adverse reactions exhibited by your corals. Please read my post on page 39 for some reactions I observed after addition of H2O2. As long as these reaction disappear say under an hour it should be fine.

Remember, dinoflagellates dying may release toxins into the water and adversely affect corals and invertebrates.

H2O2 may be more effective in light and there are a few studies using cyanobacteria I believe that show this. I cannot remember the exact papers as I read them quite a while ago. However, as light will promote dinoflagellates reappearing I would keep the tank in dark for 3 days initially.




In short here is what I suggest, remove as much as possible (more than 95%, make sure you leave little to die in the tank) and keep the tank in dark for 3 days. Add 1ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water once a day while maintaining the tank in dark. After 3 days the lights may be switched on (I am assuming you have corals) and if the corals have not respond poorly, the dosing should be increased to 1.5ml of 3% H2O2 per 10 US gal of water twice a day about 8 hours apart at least. Keep water ready for a large water change in case of large amounts of dinoflagellates die within the tank.

I hope this is helpful,

Saif

I added 10 ml yesterday (100G tank) and my oursin appeared out of nothing and was like fizzling but that stopped after a few seconds and he seems fine (this when I added h2o2 during light period; I added 5ml more after lights where out. Nothing seemed to have suffered from it; some of my corals even seem to do better today than before starting to dose.

I did also syphon most out (pretty hard though since it seems to stick on the rock; the brownish goes of but some green/transparant stays on the rock) and did a large water change before starting (to remove most of the meds I tried before. Running activated carbon and new p04x4 to.

I am not ready to try the 3 days of total darkness (I have alot of light falling in through a window during day time (indirect light!); but I defenitely try to dose at least 10 days just to see what happens.

Thx for the advice thou Saif; if this ain't working I ll try what you suggested before tearing down my tank and start over :)

 

[Tiggy]

Todays movie on what I got :)

[video]http://users.online.be/~tiggy/dinoflagelattes.wmv[/video]

Dinos????

 

[Heffe01]

Looks like dinos from what I have seen of magnified pics. But I am no scientist.

 

[Pants]

Hm Unfortunately I can't tell anything from the video. Too hard to see one cell with them all piled up like that.

Let me share part of a post I made at RC
Below is a photo at 630X magnification of a species of Prorocentrum from SerpentSlick's aquarium. This is similar to species like Prorocentrum lima, Prorocentrum hoffmanianum, Prorocentrum levis, and Prorocentrum arenarium, but it isn't any of those species. This is the group I work on. Their genomes can be 100X bigger than yours and they are responsible for diarrhetic shellfish poisoning..

Here is a photo at 630X magnification of a species of Ostreopsis from Potsy's aquarium. Ostreopsis does not have many named species but this is similar to the unnamed species causing harmful blooms in Italy and similar to Ostreopsis siamensis. The toxins these produce aren't widely studied but are pretty nasty. Said to be similar to ciguatera toxins produced by the dinoflagellate Gambierdiscus which these are closely related to..

The first cell might move like your cells. The second tends to swing in circles so I don't think that is similar to what you have.

The chains you noticed at first could just be cells that have divided and remained a little attached. We see that often in some species. Below is an example of a species that often divides and remains in short chains of separate cells.

 

[schroedel]

So I am on day 6 of my treatment and have noticed the reduction of dino in the tank. I do still have HA and some diatom or cyano which will be the next step.(I dont know where all this algae is from nitrate and phosphate are very low) Do you think it is ok to add a lawnmower blenny while im treating the tank with h2o2? When I ask at the LFS's their eyes get huge and tell me im crazy for dosing h2o2 and that they never heard of such a thing.

 

[Scoly]

Wow, just found this thread! Tagging along! Good stuff!!

 

[Tiggy]

This is what my tank looks like after doing 3 days of total darkness ... h2o2 seems to have little effect on the algea itself ...
I just wonder what is left on my stones ... hair algea? Persumed dynos were on top of those and doesn't seem to all be gone ... still some brown thingies catching/holding bubbles on some stones/glass.

I also wanted to know from the guys having success ... my h2o2 is a 3% solution BUT the 2 kinds I tried has "stabilissed" mentionned on it ... I wonder is peeps having success also used some kinda stabilised solution?

What should I do to get rid of all of it ... Adding 15 ml to my 1G tank allready and seems to not do much ... again ... using 3% stabilised h2o2.

Here are the pics:

 

[Pants]

There is some indication from the information I have gathered that some species of dinoflagellates respond well to the H2O2 and others do not. I suspect this is why reefers are having difficulty always reproducing each others' successes using the same methods.

 

[Tiggy]

There is some indication from the information I have gathered that some species of dinoflagellates respond well to the H2O2 and others do not. I suspect this is why reefers are having difficulty always reproducing each others' successes using the same methods.

So nothing to do with that "stabilised h2o2"?