Dinoflagellates – Are You Tired Of Battling Altogether?

[Potatohead]

I too took all my sand out and went barebottom...no more dinos since then.

Did you remove it all at once?

 

[Neoalchemist]

Im considering removing my sand to battle sand-based amphidinium. I have a leopard wrasse so i cant really remove it all so i was thinking of doing half and replacing it with new sand and then doing the other half a couple days or so later and replacing it. Does this approach make sense or does it half to all be removed at once and stay gone

I focused on removing all sand based dinos regardless of how much sand went with them (well not nesicarilly regardless, i didnt revove enough sand to cause nitrogen cycle issues) at least weekly, sometimes twice a week while ramping up silicate doseing and maintaining no3 and po4 slightly elevated, I also switched back to kalk in my top off to maintain alk and ph. I didnt return the sand right away. I waited at least a monthor so b4 slowly adding it back.
And at times amph started to return so sand was removed again and the cycle repeted once or twice. But after their initial removals I never let them accumulate in numbers again. They would promptly removed. Diatoms took over and l lrt them run thier course which I drew out until I hadnt seen dinos in months. From there on out I just make sure no3 andpo4 dont ever drop below 1 and .05.

 

[taricha]

Next, every tool (aside from Dr Tims) you describe above sounds like standard protocol that this thread (in my reading) advocates.

yep. All good interventions. (got a separate thread on Dr Tim's Waste Away vs dinos too, as it's more speculative. Also, The more I dig into W.A. the more I think it's a complex mix to do with elevating nutrients. Bottled bacteria products are a bit hard to unravel.)

 

[Potatohead]

I'm pretty sure I am going to remove at least some of my sand this weekend. My mind is starting to lean in that direction, I am just so tired of dealing with this stuff (two years+) and I just cannot keep phosphate in the water column.

My only real concern is I never flattened the bottom of my rocks. Should I put some egg crate or something under the few points that touch the glass to spread the load a bit? I can place rubble around to hide most of it I think.

 

[nickkohrn]

Can someone identify these jerks for me, please? I’m having difficulty doing so.

 

[ScottB]

Can someone identify these jerks for me, please? I’m having difficulty doing so.

For your next round, videos (showing movement) can really help with ID. Did these swim around as if they were tethered by a string on the pointy end? Still, the picture is fairly conclusive.

I bring you Good News! Ostreopsis which is IMO the easiest to get rid of. I did not say easy or cheap. I said easiest.

Anecdotally, 90% of the time affected tanks are low/no nutrient. Infrequently they are high nutrient, so adjust accordingly.

a) Dose nitrates and phosphates up to at least 10 and .1 and feel free to go higher.
b) UV run to/from affected DISPLAY tank. (Not sump, ostreos don't like to be there) 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow rate flow.
c) No amino dosing at all. For a long time.
d) Manual removal so they reach the UV or get exported out of tank
e) Run GAC. They are toxic and this helps remove.
f) Remove reduce anything you use to reduce nutrient in tank. NO GFO, NO CARBON DOSING, dry skim, short refugium light schedule etc.

This is not ordered by importance. If you want to solve this soon you should implement them all.

Good job getting the microscope going. That is so often the longest lasting stumbling block.

 

[ScottB]

I'm pretty sure I am going to remove at least some of my sand this weekend. My mind is starting to lean in that direction, I am just so tired of dealing with this stuff (two years+) and I just cannot keep phosphate in the water column.

My only real concern is I never flattened the bottom of my rocks. Should I put some egg crate or something under the few points that touch the glass to spread the load a bit? I can place rubble around to hide most of it I think.

Personally I would not be sweating the points of contact. More about stack instability and tumbling would be getting to me.

Sorry it has come to this. Save the sand for returning later I'd say.

 

[nickkohrn]

For your next round, videos (showing movement) can really help with ID. Did these swim around as if they were tethered by a string on the pointy end? Still, the picture is fairly conclusive.

Oddly, they didn’t move at all. I did take videos of them, but it was as if I was looking at a photo because there was no movement at all.

a) Dose nitrates and phosphates up to at least 10 and .1 and feel free to go higher.

I will increase my dosage of nitrate and begin dosing phosphate. I have been keeping them at ~8ppm (nitrate) and ~0.01-0.05ppm (phosphate).

b) UV run to/from affected DISPLAY tank. (Not sump, ostreos don't like to be there) 1 watt per 3 gallons. Slow rate flow.

I guess I will be placing an order for a UV sterilizer. I should never have sold mine. Ugh.

.
c) No amino dosing at all. For a long time.

I have been dosing a half-dose of both AcroPower and CoralAmino, so I will discontinue that.

d) Manual removal so they reach the UV or get exported out of tank

I scrape the glass daily, which I hate doing because the strands get wrapped around the corals in my SPS-only grow-out tank. I lost a Hawkin's Acropora echinata today.

e) Run GAC. They are toxic and this helps remove.

I have spare media reactors, so I guess I will hook one up to run carbon.

f) Remove reduce anything you use to reduce nutrient in tank. NO GFO, NO CARBON DOSING, dry skim, short refugium light schedule etc.

I discontinued GFO a couple of months ago, and I do not dose anything other than ESV three-part. I do have a carbon dioxide scrubber connected to my skimmer, so I will lower the water level in the skimmer to a point where it skims dry or not at all.

Thank you for your assistance—it's greatly appreciated as I now have a game plan.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Pretty happy! Dinos all gone from the display! Took months of work, put a dent in my wallet, wiped out nearly all my corals in the process and borderline traumatized me (dino PTSD). But I beat them in the display.

 

[nickkohrn]

I noticed that the Ostreopsis that I have does not seem to go into the water column at night. If I look into my tank anywhere in the timeframe outside of my photoperiod, they are still stung out from the walls. Will a UV sterilizer still be beneficial?

Also, I have a 40g breeder that is connected to a 30g sump. Do I get the sterilizer based on watts for the display or the total volume? In other words, if I get one based on the display volume, then a 15w will suffice. However, based on the total volume, I’d purchase a 25w.

 

[taricha]

Can someone identify these jerks for me, please? I’m having difficulty doing so.

These are ostreopsis as already mentioned.
Some really cool features in these pics. The clear dino looking things are the shells that have been shed by the dino, every time they divide.
You can make out the plate structure in the theca (armor) and this is one way professionals ID the cells to a species level.

 

[ScottB]

Pretty happy! Dinos all gone from the display! Took months of work, put a dent in my wallet, wiped out nearly all my corals in the process and borderline traumatized me (dino PTSD). But I beat them in the display.

Glad to hear you are in the clear! Remain vigilant on nutrient levels; the b******s are lurking. Just take a scrape of your glass and put it under the scope if you need to be reminded.

I hear you on the grief these episodes bring. Truly a test of will sometimes.

 

[ScottB]

I noticed that the Ostreopsis that I have does not seem to go into the water column at night. If I look into my tank anywhere in the timeframe outside of my photoperiod, they are still stung out from the walls. Will a UV sterilizer still be beneficial?

Also, I have a 40g breeder that is connected to a 30g sump. Do I get the sterilizer based on watts for the display or the total volume? In other words, if I get one based on the display volume, then a 15w will suffice. However, based on the total volume, I’d purchase a 25w.

The mucus nets don't entirely disappear, but IME they do lessen. You may have to encourage them into the water manually.

Another trick is to fasten a bunch of filter floss to the glass where they like to hang out. They love attaching there, and it makes it easy to remove/rinse each night. Helped me keep my corals pretty clear. Stressed, but not coated with dino snot.

The 1:3 ratio assumes total volume. Hang in there.

 

[nickkohrn]

I have only SPS corals in the system that I’m battling dinoflagellates in. Is there a benefit to moving the corals into another system and just tearing down the current one? That was the plan anyway; I’m downsizing due to living restrictions. Or would that just cause the issue to spread to the system in which I’d place the corals?

 

[ScottB]

I have only SPS corals in the system that I’m battling dinoflagellates in. Is there a benefit to moving the corals into another system and just tearing down the current one? That was the plan anyway; I’m downsizing due to living restrictions. Or would that just cause the issue to spread to the system in which I’d place the corals?

I would not be concerned with any contagion. I am of the opinion that every tank has trace dinos in there. Either you create an environment they can thrive in, or you don't.

I've beaten ostreopsis 3 times now in my frag system. My frag system has 3 tanks and 2 sumps (long story) all connected together, sharing the same water. Each time I added a NEW tank, it would get dinos. The "older" tank(s) in the system would remain "clear" of dinos.

As long as the tank you are moving them to is "mature" and not malnourished you are safe to transfer.

 

[Dsantamaria29]

Want to confirm these are Ostreopsis. The rotate their bodies in a circle while going around in a circle.

 

[DesertReefT4r]

Can someone identify these jerks for me, please? I’m having difficulty doing so.

Almond shaped, looks like ostreopsis.

 

[ScottB]

Want to confirm these are Ostreopsis. The rotate their bodies in a circle while going around in a circle.

Yup, those are ostreopsis.

 

[Dsantamaria29]

Fun. Had these once, exchanged them for Amphidinium then beat those. Upgraded my 120 to a 180 and even used 60% TB saltwater rock and 40% brand new thinking the flora / fauna would be beneficial for keeping them at bay. Threw out all the old rock / sand and FW dipped corals and got all new equipment hoping I wouldn't transfer. Guess it's back to the fight

 

[ScottB]

Oddly, they didn’t move at all. I did take videos of them, but it was as if I was looking at a photo because there was no movement at all.


I will increase my dosage of nitrate and begin dosing phosphate. I have been keeping them at ~8ppm (nitrate) and ~0.01-0.05ppm (phosphate).


I guess I will be placing an order for a UV sterilizer. I should never have sold mine. Ugh.


I have been dosing a half-dose of both AcroPower and CoralAmino, so I will discontinue that.


I scrape the glass daily, which I hate doing because the strands get wrapped around the corals in my SPS-only grow-out tank. I lost a Hawkin's Acropora echinata today.


I have spare media reactors, so I guess I will hook one up to run carbon.


I discontinued GFO a couple of months ago, and I do not dose anything other than ESV three-part. I do have a carbon dioxide scrubber connected to my skimmer, so I will lower the water level in the skimmer to a point where it skims dry or not at all.

Thank you for your assistance—it's greatly appreciated as I now have a game plan.

You are welcome. I am merely paying forward the knowledge this very thread (a few hundred pages ago) brought to me. Ostreos as I said are pretty straightforward if you have the tools/material. I feel for those with amphidinium - much more difficult to treat.