DINOS!!! Help me KILL THEM ALL!!!

[reeferfoxx]

@mdbannister I started my tank almost exactly 1 year ago. It's now at a point where I should start adding coral, though I started adding coral at 3 month. Since then I've had issues upon issues.



If i could do something over again, it would be to never add anything that promises to remove something. Hair algae = thank you god.
Things I regret not adding earlier, are the common micro fauna that dry rock doesn't contain. (pods, plankton, fan worms, etc)

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Does any creature exist that eats this junk?

 

[reeferfoxx]

Does any creature exist that eats this junk?

Creature of time. ;)

I'm not convinced you have dinos. In fact, if your NO3 is registering 0, a few weeks of KNO3 dosing with 15-20% water changes weekly should really help. If your PO4 is 0.04 trying bumping NO3 to 5-10 since your alk is on the higher side. I suspect you've dosed Vibrant to rid the hair algae. Hair algae needs to run it's course. That is why your PO4 is high to begin with. Dry rock leaches PO4. With proper clean up crew, that can help with the hair algae.

Best thing is to not rush it. You will thank yourself later on, unlike me. lol

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

That Picture is still just chilling. Like The Shining.

 

[reeferfoxx]

That Picture is still just chilling. Like The Shining.

Nutrient imbalance from hell.

 

[alyee5]

That Picture is still just chilling. Like The Shining.

redrum

 

[TonapahNorth]

I read these threads and I freak out with all the things I don't know. smh

 

[reeferfoxx]

Here is the tank today. I'm still working on a couple things. Coral color and increasing po4. Other than that, things are coming along. :)

 

[Daniel@R2R]

So...if it's nutrients I'm lacking, wouldn't just feeding more do the same thing (as opposed to dosing KNO3)?

 

[reeferfoxx]

So...if it's nutrients I'm lacking, wouldn't just feeding more do the same thing (as opposed to dosing KNO3)?

Yes it can. Though, and I'm not discouraging feeding more, feeding more can cause or lead to fish digestive issues. I would suggest feeding other things like pods, rotifers and live plankton. Reef-roids and some flake foods can help too. I bought Phyto² by Aqua-tech with a purchase of live pods. I went this route because it contained amino acids. Not enough aminos to fuel cyano but enough to keep SPS happy while trying to increase nutrients.

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Yes it can. Though, and I'm not discouraging feeding more, feeding more can cause or lead to fish digestive issues. I would suggest feeding other things like pods, rotifers and live plankton. Reef-roids and some flake foods can help too. I bought Phyto² by Aqua-tech with a purchase of live pods. I went this route because it contained amino acids. Not enough aminos to fuel cyano but enough to keep SPS happy while trying to increase nutrients.

Right! I was thinking feeding corals more. I actually only have 1 fish right now, so I would be adding things like phyto and coral frenzy...stuff for filter feeders (like my clam).

 

[reeferfoxx]

Right! I was thinking feeding corals more. I actually only have 1 fish right now, so I would be adding things like phyto and coral frenzy...stuff for filter feeders (like my clam).

Increasing fish population would help as well!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

Increasing fish population would help as well!

Oh I plan to. I've been waiting on my lid from Artfully Acrylic before adding any fish (won the one that is in there in a raffle).

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Nutrient imbalance from hell.

I think it's was orp and redox. Plus some of the eorihanl funk chrysto stuff.
But all in all bit result in the same thing. One dominant organism takes over both nutrient and carbon dioxide uptake and blooms. Usually it's the "bio filter". But besides the familiar ones we know and like, microfauna and other bacteria balance the overall load so no one can bloom.
Carbon dioxide is bieng supplied but buy multiple sources, both chemical and bio chemical. Fresh rock should be buffering faster than established rock I Belive and that that exchange of ions changes redox if I understand it correctly.
So when I half kid about dropping some Fiji mud and natural seawater in tanks like this I'm really only half kidding because the mud contains a billion organisms and a jillion bacterias plus different minerals. the organisms add competition the minerals add ions and all of them coat the new and highly buffering aragonite Thus changing the redox.
I think we don't use redox and orp as its too difficult to troubleshoot as it can be caused by any number of variables.
I think.
It's a lot like terrestrial soil really.
And a stomach.

 

[Rick.45cal]

I think it's was orp and redox. Plus some of the eorihanl funk chrysto stuff.
But all in all bit result in the same thing. One dominant organism takes over both nutrient and carbon dioxide uptake and blooms. Usually it's the "bio filter". But besides the familiar ones we know and like, microfauna and other bacteria balance the overall load so no one can bloom.
Carbon dioxide is bieng supplied but buy multiple sources, both chemical and bio chemical. Fresh rock should be buffering faster than established rock I Belive and that that exchange of ions changes redox if I understand it correctly.
So when I half kid about dropping some Fiji mud and natural seawater in tanks like this I'm really only half kidding because the mud contains a billion organisms and a jillion bacterias plus different minerals. the organisms add competition the minerals add ions and all of them coat the new and highly buffering aragonite Thus changing the redox.
I think we don't use redox and orp as its too difficult to troubleshoot as it can be caused by any number of variables.
I think.
It's a lot like terrestrial soil really.
And a stomach.

I think we tend to overlook oxydation reduction potential when we think about cyano, spirulina and the chrystophytes these days. Partly because not everyone has access to an ORP meter, or keeps long term track of ORP trends to be able to decipher what is actually causing the changes. I'm guilty of having an ORP probe that I have never bothered installing, maybe I should.

I'm not entirely sure anyone can fully interpret ORP readings without and extensive historical knowledge of the system and what's going on. I also think relying on a single ORP probe in a single location is also a major downfall trying to make sense of readings. Multiple probes is likely the only way to actually tell trends in ORP and not just a probe that's gone wild on it's own.

 

[reeferfoxx]

I think it's was orp and redox. Plus some of the eorihanl funk chrysto stuff.
But all in all bit result in the same thing. One dominant organism takes over both nutrient and carbon dioxide uptake and blooms. Usually it's the "bio filter". But besides the familiar ones we know and like, microfauna and other bacteria balance the overall load so no one can bloom.
Carbon dioxide is bieng supplied but buy multiple sources, both chemical and bio chemical. Fresh rock should be buffering faster than established rock I Belive and that that exchange of ions changes redox if I understand it correctly.
So when I half kid about dropping some Fiji mud and natural seawater in tanks like this I'm really only half kidding because the mud contains a billion organisms and a jillion bacterias plus different minerals. the organisms add competition the minerals add ions and all of them coat the new and highly buffering aragonite Thus changing the redox.
I think we don't use redox and orp as its too difficult to troubleshoot as it can be caused by any number of variables.
I think.
It's a lot like terrestrial soil really.
And a stomach.

Absolutely! ORP and redox is a great way of putting it!
In the beginning I misdiagnosed "dinos" for diatoms/chrysophytes. Some things where administered such as H2O2, Metronidazole, Dr. T's W.A. and Refresh, MB7, Seachem Stability, increase magnesium(not my fault), GFO, Activated carbon, and a poor attempt at a refugium(this could still happen in the future).

All jokes aside, I was literally one click away from purchasing Miracle Mud. I understood what direction that was needing to be taken. After the plethora of anecdotal attempts to fix my tank, seeding micro fauna, accepting my low nutrients, and realizing why simplicity is the best route, my tank is really improving.
My issue now is having PO4 of 0.001 and wanting it around 0.02. So for now I'm slowly reducing Alk to 7.0 from (now)7.5dkh and have increased more feeding. Though I blame low po4 on my skimmer. I guess that is my conundrum?

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

I think we tend to overlook oxydation reduction potential when we think about cyano, spirulina and the chrystophytes these days. Partly because not everyone has access to an ORP meter, or keeps long term track of ORP trends to be able to decipher what is actually causing the changes. I'm guilty of having an ORP probe that I have never bothered installing, maybe I should.

I'm not entirely sure anyone can fully interpret ORP readings without and extensive historical knowledge of the system and what's going on. I also think relying on a single ORP probe in a single location is also a major downfall trying to make sense of readings. Multiple probes is likely the only way to actually tell trends in ORP and not just a probe that's gone wild on it's own.

Exactly. So after the slight tumor I gave myself trying to undsersantd all those principals I whent right back to just calling it Competition. It's simpler than trying to explain all the layers of competition that effect all those things.
Similarly if I had the meter it prob use it twice a year just to see and maybe if there was a problem and compare it back to earlier readings so I can guess as to a probably cause.
I kind figure I can just guess and save myself a step and a few bucks.

If ya look at any and all the advice and old school words of wisdom about starting a tank. Even in the simplest stated terms it's all designed to keep you inside the general safe zones of any of the tests and measurement. It's advice designed so you you don't need the meters. It's learning to play by ear.

 

[saltyfilmfolks]

Absolutely! ORP and redox is a great way of putting it!
In the beginning I misdiagnosed "dinos" for diatoms/chrysophytes. Some things where administered such as H2O2, Metronidazole, Dr. T's W.A. and Refresh, MB7, Seachem Stability, increase magnesium(not my fault), GFO, Activated carbon, and a poor attempt at a refugium(this could still happen in the future).

All jokes aside, I was literally one click away from purchasing Miracle Mud. I understood what direction that was needing to be taken. After the plethora of anecdotal attempts to fix my tank, seeding micro fauna, accepting my low nutrients, and realizing why simplicity is the best route, my tank is really improving.
My issue now is having PO4 of 0.001 and wanting it around 0.02. So for now I'm slowly reducing Alk to 7.0 from (now)7.5dkh and have increased more feeding. Though I blame low po4 on my skimmer. I guess that is my conundrum?

Haha. I used to think I was lazy but reall I am just to buisy to test stuff all day too. So there's really merits to Both methods and kind as the principals are understood.
And no that was some crazy funk thing cutest you had the probably only showed up cuz it was time to learn some stuff. That's how my problems work out.
Oh Fiji mud is from Fiji. Miracle mud is from like Long Beach California.
Two cool thing I do know a bout the Fiji is I did get crazy color corraline blooms in the first tank I used it in and in my last dry cycle tank with it I got al lot of wild super macro fauna. I let it all take over the little tank experiment for a few months this year.

You need like a six stage dosing station. You ever look at Red Sea or zero. That's a super trip. I think it skips normal maturation and supports the coral as a target only using the measuerd elements in the water. The fish and food are are just part of the dosing kinda. And exports is closely controlled by carbon dosing amounts and skimming. It's like a throttle. And if you run low ya cut the vinegar and drip nutrients.

 

[futureinterest]

I recently battled dinos and won. There is some micro fauna that will eat this stuff... I'm not sure what it is... but it's out there. Everything has a predator... Established tanks don't have to worry about this as much because there is microfauna that will eat these things. At least that is my theory.

So I tried everything... but what I think worked for me was heavy manual extraction, removal of any sand that had it on it and taking a tooth brush to rock that had it on it. Pretty freaking laborious work. If any piece of it was in the tank I was in there siphoning it out. Then after 4 days of this I skipped one night and went to bed without siphoning... while there were a few strands of it still here and there on the sandbed. In the morning they were gone. Something had eaten them. The same thing happened the next day and the following day and now I'm dino free. My assumption is that there are certain types of pods that will eat this stuff. I never saw this in action but it seems most likely to me as none of the different types of snails I had would really touch the stuff. I had sooo much of it initially that the microfauna couldn't really make a dent in it. Once I had it at a manageable level the critters took care of the rest. G'luck and be patient.

 

[NCreefguy]

I can't believe that I missed this thread! The brown stringy nasty stuff with bubbles on the end that my tank got while using Vibrant looks just like yours. I'll tell you how to get rid of it.It takes a while to get things back to normal but what has worked for me was; First measure out twice the amount of Vibrant that it calls for in your size tank using the included measuring cup,walk over to the sink and dump it down the drain along with whatever you had left in the bottle and throw the measuring cup and empty bottle away. :D

Seriously though,after two months of this coating everything in my tank,I had to stop using it. My tank has nitrates so mine isn't from low nutrients. It has started to get better once I stop dosing the V.Everyone keeps saying to just keep dosing through it but I just can't do it. I hope you can get a handle on yours and get it cleared up.