Diving into SPS, recommendations

buddythelion · May 6, 2012

Hey fellow reefers,

I'm about to try SPS for the first time. I know there's lots of threads and info on keeping on SPS, but they confused me a bit and SPS is slightly intimidating to keep for me, so I wanted a thread so I can be sure I'm doing things right. But I know it can't be too difficult since so many people keep them now.

Tank's been running up for about 3 years so it's pretty stable. I am able to grow zoas, palys, and my torch and micromussa+acans are doing well along with a BTA, just to get an idea of the livestock I can keep right now.

But I've always wanted to try SPS, so here goes:

12 gallon Cube

Equipment:
3 koralia nanos + hydor flo on return
Kessil 15k
Media basket w/ chemi pure elite + purigen

My maintenance is about 40% display water changes (~3-4 gallon water change) using RODI and SeaChem's Reef Salt. I am trying a small bucket of Red Sea Pro right now as well for the time being, and everything seems to like it more, but that might just be my thinking.

Talking to my LFS, I was recommended to use B-Ionic to dose the supplements. I plan on ordering Red Sea's Pro testing Kit (ca, mag, alk combo).

Is this the right path? Do I need a skimmer? My goal for this tank is to be able to have a mixed reef, which includes all of my softies and LPS but can also keep SPS happy as well.

Hoping to find the simplest method, not to get fancy with dosing pumps etc.

My first frags are a tenuis and milli on the sandbed. Their polyps are fully extended so I hope they're doing well. Starting low and then then raising them up higher next week?

Here's a FTS of my tank:

I appreciate all help, thanks.

Reef Breeders · May 6, 2012

Sounds like your ready, keep alk at 9.5 dkh, and ca at 400-420 ppm. Test at least every three days, especially without dosing pumps. Water changes are good enough to not need a skimmer if you are doing 30% weekly.

buddythelion · May 6, 2012

anemonekeeper said:
Sounds like your ready, keep alk at 9.5 dkh, and ca at 400-420 ppm. Test at least every three days, especially without dosing pumps. Water changes are good enough to not need a skimmer if you are doing 30% weekly.

Thanks for the response anemonekeeper, I feel that I'm ready to try SPS as well, just want to try with confidence!

For test, think the red sea pro kit will do? I was thinking of this one:
Aquarium Water Testing: Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Multi Test Kit for Marine Coral Reef Aquariums
To keep the alk and ca, I was recommended to use the B-Ionic:
Amazon.com: E.S.V. B-Ionic 2-Part Calcium Buffer 64oz (32oz each bottle): Pet Supplies
Would this work? For dosing for the first time, what would you say was your trials/progress to get familiar with dosing?

Dowtish · May 6, 2012

Have you ever tested your par levels with a par meter?

I think with large water changes, you don't need a skimmer.

The only suggestion is that you keep your alk and cal and mag levels where they need to be, and keep them stable. SPS dont do well with swings of any kind. So when you do the water changes, make sure that the temp, salinity, and all other parameters are the same.

jonbar1 · May 6, 2012

I used to keep a lot of SPS in my 12g nano and think you should do really well. Just be careful, they're addictive.

Dowtish · May 6, 2012

buddythelion said:
Thanks for the response anemonekeeper, I feel that I'm ready to try SPS as well, just want to try with confidence!

For test, think the red sea pro kit will do? I was thinking of this one:
Aquarium Water Testing: Red Sea Reef Foundation Pro Multi Test Kit for Marine Coral Reef Aquariums
To keep the alk and ca, I was recommended to use the B-Ionic:
Amazon.com: E.S.V. B-Ionic 2-Part Calcium Buffer 64oz (32oz each bottle): Pet Supplies
Would this work? For dosing for the first time, what would you say was your trials/progress to get familiar with dosing?

The new Red Sea test kits are great, except for the mag test. Seems folks have been getting readings that are a little high. Might want to try an Elos or Seachem for Mag. The ESV will work great. Just start testing your water that your are mixing up. The salt should tell you what they are supposed to mix to, and dose from there, if need be. You might not have to dose very much, given that much water being changed.

Reef Breeders · May 6, 2012

For me, I had some luck with dosing by hand, my sps looked good, but grew really slow. I upgraded to dosing pumps, and get some crazy growth. On a tank as small as yours, you probably won't need one, but they definitely get the stability going. For test kits, I would reccomend the hanna checkers, kinda expensive but worth it, just be sure that you have an ro system. Red sea I have heard good things about, start with simpler stuff, you don't need the dosers and colorimeters, but if you go heavier into sps, you will definitely want them.

Reef Breeders · May 6, 2012

And stability is the single most important factor for growth

buddythelion · May 7, 2012

Dowtish said:
Have you ever tested your par levels with a par meter?

I think with large water changes, you don't need a skimmer.

The only suggestion is that you keep your alk and cal and mag levels where they need to be, and keep them stable. SPS dont do well with swings of any kind. So when you do the water changes, make sure that the temp, salinity, and all other parameters are the same.

Dowtish said:
The new Red Sea test kits are great, except for the mag test. Seems folks have been getting readings that are a little high. Might want to try an Elos or Seachem for Mag. The ESV will work great. Just start testing your water that your are mixing up. The salt should tell you what they are supposed to mix to, and dose from there, if need be. You might not have to dose very much, given that much water being changed.

Hey Dowtish, thanks for the response! Haven't tested the kessil since I don't have a par meter. But I'm sure people can chime in that it's a great light. Tank's about 11" tall and the light is 2-3" away from the water. I have Sunny D palys around the bottom portion of the halfmark of the tank, and they stretch for light, but I noticed most Sunny Ds stretch.

As anemonekeeper recommended, this is the range I should strive for?:
alk at 9.5 dkh, and ca at 400-420 ppm
What about mag?

So my water changes should have the same range as well? Meaning I should test it the first few times and dose the water change accordingly to the above range (I just noticed you already recommended this method)? I'll have to check the Sea Chem's Reef Salt vs Red Sea Coral Pro Salt once I get a test kit to see what's in the water. I used to keep mostly z + p's and didn't worry too much about the salt.

Good to know that the Red Sea Pro Kit is good, $43 for 3 test kits, hard to beat if they work. I've read somewhere that having a mag kit isn't so important, is this true or I should go Elos/Seachem (I hear Salifert is good as well?) if it's important enough?

buddythelion · May 7, 2012

jonbar1 said:
I used to keep a lot of SPS in my 12g nano and think you should do really well. Just be careful, they're addictive.

This hobby is addicting! I'm already trying to make more space in my little nano and I have a torch that needs it's own 2" radius. Running low on space. :tongue:

I was always a little afraid to try SPS, but their colors are hard to beat and I'd like to advance more as a hobbyist. As someone who's had lots of SPS in a small tank, would you mind sharing your set up and maintenance routine? Sounds like something I could definitely learn from.

Dowtish · May 7, 2012

Alk can be anywhere from 7.5-11 and Cal should be in the aforementioned range of 400-420. Mag is suggested to be at 1200-1400.

And yes, you are correct on Mag not being super important to test for all the time. But initially you need to test for it, so you know what you are working with. you will find that it will hold it's level much better than ALk and Cal.
With your current livestock, there wont be too much demand on Calcium, so you will just have to test quite a bit for the first few weeks to see how things drop to determine if you need to dose, but I'm guessing that you wont for a while.

Whatever salt you are using, mix up a batch and test it. then compare that to your existing water in the tank. make sense?

buddythelion · May 7, 2012

anemonekeeper said:
For me, I had some luck with dosing by hand, my sps looked good, but grew really slow. I upgraded to dosing pumps, and get some crazy growth. On a tank as small as yours, you probably won't need one, but they definitely get the stability going. For test kits, I would reccomend the hanna checkers, kinda expensive but worth it, just be sure that you have an ro system. Red sea I have heard good things about, start with simpler stuff, you don't need the dosers and colorimeters, but if you go heavier into sps, you will definitely want them.

anemonekeeper said:
And stability is the single most important factor for growth

Crazy growth sounds like fun, but it's a bit out of what I'm willing to spend at this time. Maybe down the road if I become more serious and upgrade my tank with SPS colonies in mind, but as a beginner it's a tad overkill but I can see that it would help with stability especially since it's a small tank.

Hanna checkers are colorimeters though right? They look like one from my days in chemistry classes. Having an easy way to check params is appealing, but I'm just starting and not looking to full blown on test kits for now.

So from what I've gathered from here and other forums as well, let me know what's right and wrong:

Keep up with water changes: I do 30-40% water changes, and that's a good thing = I don't need a skimmer. From my thinking, maybe as my SPS increase I should do 2 water changes a week, at 10-15% every 3-4 days, or should I stick with the larger water changes and the 2x change isn't needed? Test the water to know what I have to start with and fix according to the range I want.

Water movement: I'm still unsure how much flow these corals actually need. I have 3 koralia nanos, but if anything koralias put off more of a breeze (like someone blowing air at you softly) than a strong flow. Was told it might be a challenge with koralias trying to get the right flow.

Dosing: ESV B-Ionic 2 part, CA and Alk. Someone noted that perhaps the Mag portion of dosing wasn't needed as much so I don't need the mag. Test a bit in the beginning to get the feel on how much the corals will need and start to see a pattern.

Params:
Alk: 7.5-11 Ca: 400-420 Mag: 1200-1400

Dowtish · May 7, 2012

You might want to look into a MP10 by ecotech for flow. It will give variable flow throughout the tank.

One 30-40% water change a week is more than enough.

And the rest, you seem to have a good handle on. Good Luck.

jonbar1 · May 7, 2012

Here's how I started and how I ended up. I had a 70w mh over the tank with just the stock overflow powered by a maxijet 900 since I was keeping mostly zoas and LPS. I got montiporas and green birdsnest to live and caught the SPS bug and bought some ORA frags. They lived but didn't thrive so I upgraded to a 150w mh and added a Koralia 2 which turned the tank into a whirlpool basically. This made everything happy! They grew fast, and month to month there was very noticible growth. I was using seachems calcium and alkalinity version of 2 part and was dosing daily one or the other. You shouldn't have to worry about that until the tank is mostly full of SPS and LPS. I never had any troubles keeping anything alive or happy, just remember these things don't stay frags for very long and some get huge for a nano like the torts. I lost them all during a week long power outage while I was out of state, but most LPS made it and I haven't gone back. My old thread from back then is still on here too and I think I list all the stuff I did to maintain it.

Your waterchanges sound good to me, just make sure the new water is warmed to tank temperature before doing it. I ran a skimmer on and off but never saw a difference on a tank this small.

For water movement, the SPS polyps will tell you. If they're out blowing in the breeze they're happy. If not they want more flow. Millipora especially, they should look pretty fuzzy.

Definitely use ESV 2 part. It already has mag, strontium, and all the rest mixed in with the Ca and Alk. I am using their salt mix and have never been happier. I wish I would have used them back in the day for their 2 part. Test the first couple weeks the day after waterchange, couple days later, and day of waterchange before doing the waterchange. Chart your params to see how much the corals are actually using and you'll know how much to dose. Sounds tedious but very easy in practice.

Mostly, just keep an eye on the frags you have. If they look happy and grow you know you're doing good. They are no harder than zoas, just like more light and flow.

buddythelion · May 7, 2012

Dowtish said:
You might want to look into a MP10 by ecotech for flow. It will give variable flow throughout the tank.

One 30-40% water change a week is more than enough.

And the rest, you seem to have a good handle on. Good Luck.

I'll be picking up an MP10 for $140 a year used. Is that a good price? I'm not too sure how used prices work on the MP10.

buddythelion · May 7, 2012

jonbar1 said:
Here's how I started and how I ended up. I had a 70w mh over the tank with just the stock overflow powered by a maxijet 900 since I was keeping mostly zoas and LPS. I got montiporas and green birdsnest to live and caught the SPS bug and bought some ORA frags. They lived but didn't thrive so I upgraded to a 150w mh and added a Koralia 2 which turned the tank into a whirlpool basically. This made everything happy! They grew fast, and month to month there was very noticible growth. I was using seachems calcium and alkalinity version of 2 part and was dosing daily one or the other. You shouldn't have to worry about that until the tank is mostly full of SPS and LPS. I never had any troubles keeping anything alive or happy, just remember these things don't stay frags for very long and some get huge for a nano like the torts. I lost them all during a week long power outage while I was out of state, but most LPS made it and I haven't gone back. My old thread from back then is still on here too and I think I list all the stuff I did to maintain it.

Your waterchanges sound good to me, just make sure the new water is warmed to tank temperature before doing it. I ran a skimmer on and off but never saw a difference on a tank this small.

For water movement, the SPS polyps will tell you. If they're out blowing in the breeze they're happy. If not they want more flow. Millipora especially, they should look pretty fuzzy.

Definitely use ESV 2 part. It already has mag, strontium, and all the rest mixed in with the Ca and Alk. I am using their salt mix and have never been happier. I wish I would have used them back in the day for their 2 part. Test the first couple weeks the day after waterchange, couple days later, and day of waterchange before doing the waterchange. Chart your params to see how much the corals are actually using and you'll know how much to dose. Sounds tedious but very easy in practice.

Mostly, just keep an eye on the frags you have. If they look happy and grow you know you're doing good. They are no harder than zoas, just like more light and flow.

You make SPS sound so easy and friendly to keep! I didn't know they made a salt, I might have to look into that and check out prices etc.

I went ahead and checked your old thread but... I got really really really distracted with those armegoddon's and propogator purple people eaters. The propogators. DANG. I WANT!

I now know what to do for my SPS. First things first got to get that test kit, will be ordering soon. The polyps are open and are swaying in the flow like you mentioned, but just swaying softly, not like a constant hurricane/whirpool. The milli is very fuzzy, I like it a lot! The tenuis has nice polyps as well.

buddythelion · May 16, 2012

First test with the Red Sea Pro kit:

CA: 475
KH: 13.3

Uhm. Going to retest...

buddythelion · May 16, 2012

Ah... I was reading the water line like the video said and not the plunger like the manual said.

KH: 10.75
CA: >500 on the 2nd reading, 3rd reading 490. The first reading was a guess because i let it sit for a bit trying to watch it change colors. It's supposed to be the first second it turns blue and the 3rd is the best one.

So it seems like Ca is too high, how do I lower it?

JackoChang · May 16, 2012

It'll lower naturally as your corals grow.

Have you checked your mag? Personally, I think it is important, so your CA and alk aren't binding to each other and harder for your coral to use. Having low mag can swing your numbers. I agree that you don't use up mag quite as fast though, unless you have a 3' mangrove.

How are you liking your Red Sea kits? I like the titrator idea and the fact that they sell reagents separate instead of having to buy a whole new kit.

One more thing about water changes, a wise man once told me that smaller water changes are more stable for your tank than larger ones. So I will have to say the smaller ones 2x week would be better. Perhaps you should try both and see which the coral like better? HTH

Sent using Forum Runner