DIY Urea + Ammonia Mix Dosing Chart

[BriDroid]

@Miami Reef can I get a sanity check over here?

I am dosing ammonium bicarb, but no urea. I have struggled with low nitrates on this tank since the get-go. Total water volume is around 70 gallons. I started dosing by hand 3mL per day. Over the course of weeks I increased my additions to 3 x daily. My nitrates have never gone above 2.5ppm (3ppm on Nyos, got a new Salifert kit because I was starting to get suspicious...) I have since gone to using a doser, and I am dosing 3mL 6x a day This is a ~50% increase over my previous dose, and it;s only been a couple of days but my nitrates this morning were still only 2.5ppm.

Where do I go from here? I have high phosphate at 0.3ppm and I'm strugging with cyano and a few dinos that I believe are tied to the nutrient imbalance. Is there any harm in increasing the ammonium bicarb dose beyond where I am at? It just seems like a lot.

One other comment, while its possible my solution strength may have gone down, it does still have a very strong ammonia odor, so there's definitely something in there. Is it worth doing a quick NH3 test on the stock solution, or would that even be viable?

For me when I was just dosing ammonium bicarbonate, I was struggling with having to add a lot of it to keep NO3 measurable. When I added the tiny amount of urea, it really seems to be helping by not having to dose as much of the ammonium bicarbonate/urea solution. You might try adding urea and see if it helps your tank as well.

 

[MeganV]

For me when I was just dosing ammonium bicarbonate, I was struggling with having to add a lot of it to keep NO3 measurable. When I added the tiny amount of urea, it really seems to be helping by not having to dose as much of the ammonium bicarbonate/urea solution. You might try adding urea and see if it helps your tank as well.

Thanks for the idea, I will give it a go. I have a ton of urea laying around because I use it to increase the solubility of fiber reactive dyes.

 

[BriDroid]

Thanks for the idea, I will give it a go. I have a ton of urea laying around because I use it to increase the solubility of fiber reactive dyes.

I will be interesting to see if your results are similar to mine. I couldn't believe how much of a difference that little urea made!

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

I’m up to 160mil daily of urea and ammonia (mixed per the recipe here). No3 is 1.6 Po4 is .10. Normally inverted like this I would have notable issues. Zero. Tank looks really healthy and stable. I dose over 12 hours my lighting schedule is 14. I do have to clean my glass every other day. I NEVER turn my UV on. I’m having to clean my glass so much, I’m tempted to turn it on. But I am a chicken as I don’t want to negatively impact the tank. How far should I take the dosing? Meaning, should I keep increasing every 2-3 weeks? Until when? What’s the limit? Signs to look for? Thanks all.


I swapped out my frag tank for my new larger one which increased my water about 60g, so I am just shy of 600g now. For reference. System is very SPS heavy right now. The new 110g Lowboy will be LPS/Softie when my SPS grow out lookdown tank is ready. Sadly, I thought it was. Ask my half empty racks of SPS frags how they liked it. :(

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

Question for @Miami Reef or @Randy Holmes-Farley - I have been dosing ammonium chloride in lieu of NeoNitrate for the past 2 weeks. Too soon to tell actual results, but it's definitely helped to stabilize the nitrate swings I was having over the course of a day.

Is it feasible to add urea into the ammonium chloride without adverse reactions? Any issues with potential chemistry or precipitation?

Thanks for the help!

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes, I think you can combine ammonium chloride and urea for dosing.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

@Miami Reef - I am at your week 5, but a couple months in. It’s pretty darn spot on to what you say I should be seeing in the numbers (No3, use the 600g for reference). Should I just keep going up 30mil a day every couple weeks? When should I stop? What should I look for?

 

[MeganV]

I will be interesting to see if your results are similar to mine. I couldn't believe how much of a difference that little urea made!

Well, it's only been a week and half, but I am seeing a marked increase in my nitrate levels. I am finally at 5ppm NO3, having been at less than 3ppm for basically the duration of the life of this setup which is coming on a year here in December.

I am dosing 27mL/day (3mL x 9 times over the course of the lights on) of the 20g/L ammonium bicarb + 5g/L urea stock soluton. Previously I had been doing solely ammonium bicarbonate, but tried the urea combo starting last week. My total water volume is around 70 gallons with a pretty light coral and bio load.

 

[Miami Reef]

@Miami Reef - I am at your week 5, but a couple months in. It’s pretty darn spot on to what you say I should be seeing in the numbers (No3, use the 600g for reference). Should I just keep going up 30mil a day every couple weeks? When should I stop? What should I look for?

Depends on your nitrate tests. If it’s still too low, you can increase the dose.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Well, it's only been a week and half, but I am seeing a marked increase in my nitrate levels. I am finally at 5ppm NO3, having been at less than 3ppm for basically the duration of the life of this setup which is coming on a year here in December.

I am dosing 27mL/day (3mL x 9 times over the course of the lights on) of the 20g/L ammonium bicarb + 5g/L urea stock soluton. Previously I had been doing solely ammonium bicarbonate, but tried the urea combo starting last week. My total water volume is around 70 gallons with a pretty light coral and bio load.

Do you observe any tank change?

 

[MeganV]

Do you observe any tank change?

The one thing I noticed that suddenly changed was my filter sock plugging extremely quickly all of a sudden. I don't use the felt type, just the mesh ones to catch any large debris. I typically don't clean the mesh sock unless I have done some manual hair algae scrubbing or something like that, but I have needed to rinse it several times a week since starting the urea. It isn't really visible gunk, more of a film. I wonder if it could be bacteria related?

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It isn't really visible gunk, more of a film. I wonder if it could be bacteria related?

Possible. Some bacteria can metabolize urea.

 

[MeganV]

Quick update on my ammonium bicarb/urea experiment. To recap, I started the ammonium bicarb in July and was still struggling to get a measurable nitrate reading. I have been doing the combined stock solution for the last two weeks, and over the last three days my nitrate has gone up to almost 20ppm. I backed off the dosage rate by around 20% and will continue to retest every couple of days. My goal is to get this to stabilize around 10ppm.

The waters are slightly muddied because concurrently I have been using phosphate absorbing pad to lower the phosphates. I think I must have phos bound in my rocks because it seems like I can't get this to stabilize. The pad lowers it pretty rapidly, but then as soon as I remove it it shoots back up to 0.15ppm.

I am going to continue to play around with things until I get a consistent balance. My primary objective is to address some nuisance dinos and cyano that I believe are rooted in having a nitrogen limited system.

 

[RoanokeReef]

Just wanted to add some feedback from my 69g tank. I'm dosing 40ml and still register 0 N on both Hanna and Trident. The last week I've noticed some brown carpet type algae growing and some of my frags are darkening in color. I experienced this before when dosing just Ammonia before. My plan is to back off the dosing amount slowly and see how things progress.

My update - I'm down to just dosing 5ml daily, I'm probably going to shut it off in the next week or so. Brown algae is gone and corals have started to lighten back up to a more pleasing color.

 

[Reginald Reefer III]

IMO those levels aren't terribly high and you might end up in a better spot by having a bit higher nutrients. Chasing that number up and down is probably doing more harm than good.

I'm on week 2 of using solely Ammonium Chloride as my nitrate source. Urea is arriving tomorrow and I will transition to a combo, but the sps seem to REALLY like it so far. Best PE I have had, even during the day. Excited to see how the urea will do.

 

[Troylee]

Do you observe any tank change?

I’ve been dosing it for about 2 months.. my colors are a little richer and deeper looking.. not a lot but it’s noticeable.. biggest change is tons of green and brown dust on the glass daily I’m having to clean vs once every 4 days or so.. it’s annoying but the corals looks great so it’s worth it.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Depends on your nitrate tests. If it’s still too low, you can increase the dose.

No3 is in the 1-2 range.

 

[Miami Reef]

No3 is in the 1-2 range.

Then yes, you can further increase the dose.

If you want, a 10 ppm boost with sodium nitrate, then continuing with the ammonia + urea mix could potentially be useful. It will satisfy the N needs, making it a bit easier to get an increase from the mix. In any case, if you want nitrate higher, you’d want to increase the dose. There’s no limit to how much one can dose if there aren’t negative observations like increased algae, brown corals, etc.

 

[WhatCouldGoWrong71]

Then yes, you can further increase the dose.

If you want, a 10 ppm boost with sodium nitrate, then continuing with the ammonia + urea mix could potentially be useful. It will satisfy the N needs, making it a bit easier to get an increase from the mix. In any case, if you want nitrate higher, you’d want to increase the dose. There’s no limit to how much one can dose if there aren’t negative observations like increased algae, brown corals, etc.

OK, I was concerned. But I have >600g now. I listened to A podcast with Mike Polletta where he said he had lost some fish in the process of getting his dosing amount up. I think he was in the 300 mill range for 500g. I assume every tank is different with this. I’ll take it up to about 220 tomorrow and see how the tank reacts.

 

[Miami Reef]

OK, I was concerned. But I have >600g now. I listened to A podcast with Mike Polletta where he said he had lost some fish in the process of getting his dosing amount up. I think he was in the 300 mill range for 500g. I assume every tank is different with this. I’ll take it up to about 220 tomorrow and see how the tank reacts.

It takes over 8 ppm total ammonia for several days to kill fish. You aren’t dosing near that amount, and your tank is currently depleting the ammonia at a faster rate than it can keep up.

I don’t see a risk by increasing the dose.