Do I Have Ammonia? (Pic)

[Idoc]

Update: I went down the road to the grocery last night and threw a piece of shrimp in before bed. I noticed the crabs immediately went to it and were eating and when I woke up this morning, no sign of shrimp. Tested the water and all levels are 0.

Still apprehensive that I lucked out ... should I try the pure ammonia approach?

You have life i'v the tank, so eventually it will cycle completely. But it would be nice to know if it's safe to add fish, though. I would dose pure ammonia up to 1ppm and see if you can clear it to zero in 24hrs... next if you can clear 2ppm in 24hrs, but start with 1 to see where you are at in the cycle.

Or, you can suspend a shrimp in a mesh bag or pantyhose where the crabs can't get to it...tied to a stick across the top of the tank if you don't have a center brace. But, i like the pure ammonia route best since you know exactly how much you added at a given time.

 

[Scrubber_steve]

Real live rock hey. Well done. Don't hear much about it these days.
Feed the prawn but perhaps dice it up a bit.

 

[Kinghugo5]

You have life i'v the tank, so eventually it will cycle completely. But it would be nice to know if it's safe to add fish, though. I would dose pure ammonia up to 1ppm and see if you can clear it to zero in 24hrs... next if you can clear 2ppm in 24hrs, but start with 1 to see where you are at in the cycle.

Or, you can suspend a shrimp in a mesh bag or pantyhose where the crabs can't get to it...tied to a stick across the top of the tank if you don't have a center brace. But, i like the pure ammonia route best since you know exactly how much you added at a given time.

I think I’ll get some pure ammonia today, thank you!! Definitely not here to kill any fish, but it does seem like I got some very good live rock so it may have been worth the investment for a fast cycle!

 

[Captain Quint]

I wanted to make sure there wasn’t going to be surprise die off but am thinking of adding two Ocellaris clowns sometime this week. Thoughts?

Did you have ammonia, then nitrites and then you would have seen some nitrates?

 

[Captain Quint]

Ok thank you!! Will get a piece tomorrow.

To save yourself a headache when it comes time to remove the rotting shrimp place it in a cutoff heel of pantyhose so when you remove it the shrimp will not fall apart in your tank. Easy messless removal.

 

[Kinghugo5]

Did you have ammonia, then nitrites and then you would have seen some nitrates?

I haven’t had any levels, even after the shrimp last night. Going to try pure ammonia later today and tomorrow to see what it can keep up with.

 

[Captain Quint]

I think I’ll get some pure ammonia today, thank you!! Definitely not here to kill any fish, but it does seem like I got some very good live rock so it may have been worth the investment for a fast cycle!

Or that versus shrimp. lol

 

[Captain Quint]

I haven’t had any levels, even after the shrimp last night. Going to try pure ammonia later today and tomorrow to see what it can keep up with.

It would have to start to rot.

 

[Kinghugo5]

It would have to start to rot.

The crabs didn’t give it enough time lol

 

[Captain Quint]

The crabs didn’t give it enough time lol

That's funny.

 

[brandon429]

- live rock is ready and needs no help no feeding. It’s skip cycle ready

We don’t add ammonia to systems with animals in it

The bac on live rock never needs human feeding once set, only to be wet, and the bac live as long as it’s wet. What you are doing now will lead to a mass algae outbreak, don’t feed extra nitrogen here unless animals want it in the form of usable feed.

Time to being reefing lightly, not heavily, as the cycle never occurred here rocks just move their bac to new locations easily without loss of bac, without a cycle.

In fact, it increases bac to move rocks to a new tank, it doesn’t decrease

How bout them details let’s see a confirming tank pic. We have a sixteen page cycling thread of these details with fifty tank cycle examples but that above is plenty good summary.
Wasn’t making up that detail about bac securing their own feed, our thread has two examples of 24 month and 36 month no feed/ live rock still passing an oxidation test.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

Ammonia is for dry rock cycling, we pay more for live rock because it’s ready. Let’s put an end to redundant cycling ~ it makes you a precise, confident reefer right off the bat to make such a call. How we cycle a tank absolutely effects how we deal with invasions coming soon, to be confident and precise up front means you know what to do when algae comes just the same, and your investment won’t die


B

 

[lapin]

Yep My money is on Brandon429 response. Live rock (cycled) with critters. You should be good to go with 80 lbs and a 70 gallon tank. You can add your 2 fish. I would keep an eye on ammonia levels for a few days just to be sure. I keep a bottle of prime on hand in case of ammonia spikes.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed

If there was ammonia we would want to do suppressive moves, not spikes, as the animals we paid extra for do not want to be burned in their face although mostly they’ll tolerate it. we do not add ammonia to live rocks with benthic verifiers like coralline and crabs already in place in a free and decent society

It’s time to see the pics, and likely put in some starter corals

Don’t add fish until fallow and qt is in place, the extra 76 days is more wait time so we are in no rush to spike anything here. The extra nitrogen from the shrimp is just what early algae and bryopsis want so badly, but nothing else on the new setup needs it. We end up feeding algae out of good intentions to feed bac, but for fifteen millennia they were ok without us

 

[Kinghugo5]

- live rock is ready and needs no help no feeding. It’s skip cycle ready

We don’t add ammonia to systems with animals in it

The bac on live rock never needs human feeding once set, only to be wet, and the bac live as long as it’s wet. What you are doing now will lead to a mass algae outbreak, don’t feed extra nitrogen here unless animals want it in the form of usable feed.

Time to being reefing lightly, not heavily, as the cycle never occurred here rocks just move their bac to new locations easily without loss of bac, without a cycle.

In fact, it increases bac to move rocks to a new tank, it doesn’t decrease

How bout them details let’s see a confirming tank pic. We have a sixteen page cycling thread of these details with fifty tank cycle examples but that above is plenty good summary.
Wasn’t making up that detail about bac securing their own feed, our thread has two examples of 24 month and 36 month no feed/ live rock still passing an oxidation test.

https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/the-microbiology-of-reef-tank-cycling.214618/

Ammonia is for dry rock cycling, we pay more for live rock because it’s ready. Let’s put an end to redundant cycling ~ it makes you a precise, confident reefer right off the bat to make such a call. How we cycle a tank absolutely effects how we deal with invasions coming soon, to be confident and precise up front means you know what to do when algae comes just the same, and your investment won’t die


B

Ok this is what I thought all along which is why I bought so much live rock. My LFS owner seems very knowledgeable and even showed me his RO DI system and tested it in front of me. He said something very similar to the above.

I’m glad I really only fed the crabs with the little piece of shrimp.

I was thinking of adding the two clowns, but also a BT anemone. Maybe I’ll just add the anemone first and feed it for a week?

 

[Dr. Dendrostein]

Hi All,

I wish I would’ve researched most accurate test kit before buying API at my LFS as this seems to be a reoccurring topic. I apologize in advance but can not determine what color this is saying...

My nitrites and nirates are 0 and a 8.2 PH.

Tank has been up for 3 days. 72 gallon bowfront. 80 lbs cured live rock and 40 lbs of Fiji pink live sand. HOB octopus 100 protein skimmer and 1275 gph.

Any help is appreciated!

Nate

We've been there done that. For future get test kit ONLY for NH3.

 

[NickC]

Ok this is what I thought all along which is why I bought so much live rock. My LFS owner seems very knowledgeable and even showed me his RO DI system and tested it in front of me. He said something very similar to the above.

I’m glad I really only fed the crabs with the little piece of shrimp.

I was thinking of adding the two clowns, but also a BT anemone. Maybe I’ll just add the anemone first and feed it for a week?

I agree 100% with Brandon, I can’t believe you had so many people telling you to dose ammonia on live rock. Very bad advice in my opinion. Your probably ok to add the clowns now, however, I like to wait until the initial diatom bloom comes and goes when starting a new tank with live rock. This doesn’t take very long to happen, usually around two weeks but it really depends on the rock that you start with.

I would definitely wait until your tank is more stable before adding any anemone.

 

[brandon429]

No harm has been done at all but it's a good talking point

It's ok to perhaps test live rock if we suspect a lfs selling fake purple for example, but I want to see a typed dedicated reason for the move vs just trusting biology and going off other confirming benthics like serupulid fanworms, universal live rock associates. Or some micro star legs sticking out a hole

I'd remove the shrimp, anemone is biologically ok since the system is as mature as the live rock being used/anemones can be target fed for support/ but that's a skill level ten starter. if you feel all the bells and whistles are tuned for such a sensitive animal it's not going to fail to work, but a trick we like to cover in our tank threads is anticipation

Your tank is guaranteed to get algae

His tank is guaranteed, Lapin's, and mine. We are all getting it, have a plan with a measurable outcome in 48 hours. Not a plan of hope, ID threads, and waiting, and water tinkering...a kill plan. An I'm not giving up my investment plan, not doing what the masses do with their animals plan. Get mean about making that tank work right off the bat

Prep for that is critical here, you'll be sticking with advanced items up front and this limits your treatment options for the inevitable

But if your tank was three hundred bucks of zoanthid frags, couple hundred top shelf lps frags, some shrooms etc that changes the access game altogether

You can drain tank to get to algae, or remove rocks as those corals tolerate removal just fine, and this access is how to guarantee an early investment will not be lost

To stock with pure sensitives in the early expected hand guiding/direct kill phase is to introduce reasons not to act, or to act partially. We already took first steps to never act partial

 

[brandon429]

Heading to work but wanted to post something fun. I'm willing to put my 13 yr old nano reef on the line for some proofs.

Nobody with fish can do this but here's how strong live rock and bacteria are: thirty three minute tank drain, all corals all benthics, next day follow up.

As of this morning I'm counting about twenty snails and fanworms and sponges and ophiuroid micro brittles. This is tidal flow, a dry day on Fiji. All our reefs can do this, just not with fish.

Certain corals won't tolerate, most will, and the rocks and bacteria always can be trusted to survive. Clearly if there was an eight inch Bobbitt worm in the rocks it would die/spike but considering this is air drain number one thousand two hundred nine I think he died in 07.

Algae once grew on my new live rocks, as expected, before they were pure coral and coralline (which are bio-rejecting surfaces, ever seen hair algae on the flesh part of any lps?)

But by implementing an access plan, based on trust, I killed the algae off the rocks with a steak knife until the good stuff took the real estate. Nothing fancy, no water testing and hoping/waiting. This reef isn't allowed to die until a nerf sortie...




Twelve hours next morn

 

[NickC]

No harm has been done at all but it's a good talking point

It's ok to perhaps test live rock if we suspect a lfs selling fake purple for example, but I want to see a typed dedicated reason for the move vs just trusting biology and going off other confirming benthics like serupulid fanworms, universal live rock associates. Or some micro star legs sticking out a hole

I'd remove the shrimp, anemone is biologically ok since the system is as mature as the live rock being used/anemones can be target fed for support/ but that's a skill level ten starter. if you feel all the bells and whistles are tuned for such a sensitive animals it's not going to fail to work, but a trick we like to cover in our tank threads is anticipation

Your tank is guaranteed to get algae

His tank is guaranteed, Lapin's, and mine.

Prep for that is critical here, you'll be sticking with advanced items up front and this limits your treatment options for the inevitable

But if your tank was three hundred bucks if zoanthid frags, couple hundred top shelf lps frags that changes the access game altogether

You can drain tank to get to algae, or remove rocks as those corals tolerate removal just fine, and this access is how to guarantee an early investment will not be lost

To stock with pure sensitives in the early expected hand guiding/direct kill phase is to introduce reasons not to act, or to act partially. We already took first steps to never act partial

Biologically the rock can support it of course. I think that advising a new reefer to stick an anemone in a three day old tank is asking for trouble however.

 

[Kinghugo5]

No harm has been done at all but it's a good talking point

It's ok to perhaps test live rock if we suspect a lfs selling fake purple for example, but I want to see a typed dedicated reason for the move vs just trusting biology and going off other confirming benthics like serupulid fanworms, universal live rock associates. Or some micro star legs sticking out a hole

I'd remove the shrimp, anemone is biologically ok since the system is as mature as the live rock being used/anemones can be target fed for support/ but that's a skill level ten starter. if you feel all the bells and whistles are tuned for such a sensitive animal it's not going to fail to work, but a trick we like to cover in our tank threads is anticipation

Your tank is guaranteed to get algae

His tank is guaranteed, Lapin's, and mine. We are all getting it, have a plan with a measurable outcome in 48 hours. Not a plan of hope, ID threads, and waiting, and water tinkering...a kill plan. An I'm not giving up my investment plan, not doing what the masses do with their animals plan. Get mean about making that tank work right off the bat

Prep for that is critical here, you'll be sticking with advanced items up front and this limits your treatment options for the inevitable

But if your tank was three hundred bucks of zoanthid frags, couple hundred top shelf lps frags, some shrooms etc that changes the access game altogether

You can drain tank to get to algae, or remove rocks as those corals tolerate removal just fine, and this access is how to guarantee an early investment will not be lost

To stock with pure sensitives in the early expected hand guiding/direct kill phase is to introduce reasons not to act, or to act partially. We already took first steps to never act partial

Ok so you suggest gradually adding fish/hardy corals and then more sensitive corals? I thought an anenome was pretty hardy but I admit I haven’t researched specifically the BT as much as I should.