Do I Have Ammonia? (Pic)

[brandon429]

Wasnt sure if you are moving tanks or something but yes those anems r usually held off till balance is attained

I use brains, euphyllia, zoanthids, palys, montis, blastos

The safe time to add fish is after studying up in fish forum under tank transfer, fallow and qt which is 76 day procedure

You stock up on corals so the 76 day fallow isn't so boring ha

 

[Kinghugo5]

Wasnt sure if you are moving tanks or something but yes those anems r usually held off till balance is attained

I use brains, euphyllia, zoanthids, palys, montis, blastos

The safe time to add fish is after studying up in fish forum under tank transfer, fallow and qt which is 76 day procedure

You stock up on corals so the 76 day fallow isn't so boring ha

Ok so no clowns until I build up with some coral?

 

[brandon429]

Yep. Even though it's possible and common to skip the fallow stuff, it's currently the best known way to prevent fish loss as the months go by in your system.

Our thread showed that you can add fish and an anem if they came from an established system in your home, ammonia processing is conferred by live rock with the multi visual cues we picture in the thread. In this case since your animals come from outside your home it's a new fallow/tank transfer method if you want to give fish the best chance, and anems are better held off till it all matures

 

[Idoc]

Biologically the rock can support it of course. I think that advising a new reefer to stick an anemone in a three day old tank is asking for trouble however.

Trusting that a LFS actually sold him seasoned live rock without testing to ensure a good colony of nitrifying bacteria is truly present before adding fish is also asking for trouble. I don't think it was bad advice given to the OP to test the system prior to adding higher life form fish to the system. This system has only been wet for 3 days with zero nitrates registering in the system when tested. That's quite a leap of faith to assume this tank is cycled. The risk of a slight ammonia dose to ensure th he bacteria are present is only a few disgruntled crabs. Just my opinion...

 

[rkpetersen]

Late to this thread but can confirm that a large mass of fully cured live rock can completely jump start a tank cycle. You have to be sure of your source and get it from water to water fast, or decay will set it and that will generate excess ammonia. I've added inverts and a few fish within a couple days, and even with twice-daily testing, never saw a trace of ammonia or nitrite. Have seen this with 3 different tank setups. Most recent one I did differently, with dry rock and full processing and curing before adding them to the DT, not because of the price of fully cured live rock but because the burden of hitchhikers with live rock can cause you ongoing problems for months or years after.

 

[brandon429]

The reason our thread is sixteen pages without loss, and without testing, is due to other ways (plural) we verify live rock from visual benthic animals we can see without fanfare. They're multiples on real live rock. Going off painted coralline alone would be dangerous and we'd have losses.

More than one benthic life form + coralline + most lfs don't lie + smell test+ inspecting the vat it came from for benthics = neat cycling thread better than parameter chasing in my opinion. Far more deliberate practice

 

[Kinghugo5]

Several of my pieces had some coralline growth. Not painted, they had that option dry and explained it was colored for those who don’t want to wait for the growth. He then helped me pick out a few pieces with some spotty coralline.

I think I’ll introduce some hardy corals this week.

 

[NickC]

Trusting that a LFS actually sold him seasoned live rock without testing to ensure a good colony of nitrifying bacteria is truly present before adding fish is also asking for trouble. I don't think it was bad advice given to the OP to test the system prior to adding higher life form fish to the system. This system has only been wet for 3 days with zero nitrates registering in the system when tested. That's quite a leap of faith to assume this tank is cycled. The risk of a slight ammonia dose to ensure th he bacteria are present is only a few disgruntled crabs. Just my opinion...

If you read through what I wrote again, I told the owner of the tank he’d “probably” be ok adding a couple of clowns. I also said that I like to wait until after the first diatom bloom has passed, which usually takes a couple weeks.

After a bloom, a tank started with live rock is surely able to support the ammonia produced by a couple of small fish. No dosing of anything required. If it were my tank I wouldn’t be putting anything in it at all right now though, esp. any coral or anemone.

 

[brandon429]

Agreed it's ok to wait and not rush. We merely enjoy predicting what the biosystem can support, what is added is based on skill of aquarist.

I do hope my 30 min tank drain at least simulates a fresh start over each time. I bet the OP didn't have much more than a thirty minute drive home, and his rocks weren't in air alone they were likely bagged/high humidity.

It's not to advocate rushing, it's to advocate being precise in what a biosystem can support based on current skill sets/practice etc. To show skip cycle access

Find something we can be certain of early on, and implement it. Don't pack a ton of corals, but to exercise basic trust in live rock see what a few do. Run your lights heavy blue, light white, and slow ramp up specifically this mode.

Also, best example I've seen of this technique is from @hotashes I'll find build thread, similarity is shocking.

 

[cracker]

Agreed with the above ! No fish, no anemone ,no ammonia . Just feed what critters You have now & test. Please keep in mind, One must be patient in the beginning .

 

[Kinghugo5]

I’m torn now because I see the benefit of testing pure ammonia to see bacteria levels but also understand I’ve introduced massive colonies with the amount of live rock/sand so should just trust it.

Perhaps I’ll test a very small amount of ammonia, much less than recommended to cycle an aquarium, to see if it seamlessly takes care of it to give me confidence to add some initial corals?

 

[brandon429]

Yes a light test is fine, is ok to retest run it this way for safety and affect:

Add liquid pure ammonium chloride, for cycling, minimal amount until APi ammonia registers -any- detectable change upwards, stop. Lowest discernible increment. You want your tank water at like .5 ppm if possible, this is safe enough to prove without mass kill and other readers will appreciate seeing some follow up verification.

Then retest in 24 hours we'll link your thread due to verification, can do. Won't mass kill, good to update trust points let's do.

 

[Kinghugo5]

Thank you!! Is ammonium hydroxide ok? I found pure ammonium hydroxide at Giant Eagle and grabbed some.

 

[Kinghugo5]

Also side note - not that it matters on day 4 but my nightly reading is still zeros across the board.

 

[Kinghugo5]

Final update for the night - I researched that ammonium hydroxide is ok and added 2 mL to the tank. My thought being if it can read zeros again tomorrow, how much ammonia can two small fish add per day that the bacteria colonies can’t keep up with? Surely less than 2 mL...

 

[NickC]

Final update for the night - I researched that ammonium hydroxide is ok and added 2 mL to the tank. My thought being if it can read zeros again tomorrow, how much ammonia can two small fish add per day that the bacteria colonies can’t keep up with? Surely less than 2 mL...

Make sure to test tonight so you know how much ammonia you added. That way you have something to go off of tomorrow.

 

[Barry_Cuda]

Yep My money is on Brandon429 response. Live rock (cycled) with critters. You should be good to go with 80 lbs and a 70 gallon tank. You can add your 2 fish. I would keep an eye on ammonia levels for a few days just to be sure. I keep a bottle of prime on hand in case of ammonia spikes.

I cycled my Biocube with aquacultured live rock, and even with fresh rock shipped straight from the Gulf, I had significant die-off and ammonia levels at 8+ppm. I'd be very concerned about watching ammonia in a tank with livestock right off the bat, even with well-seeded live rock.

 

[Kinghugo5]

Update - 12 hours later and all levels read zero after 1.5 (correction from last night) mL of ammonium hydroxide last night. .34 mL = 1 ppm in a 10 gallon tank. I used a total of 55 gallons of water so multiplied by 5.5 to get 1.87 mL for 1ppm. Since I only used 1.5 mL, it should be around .8ppm added.

This has made me fairly confident in bacteria levels.

Small test, but again my thinking is if the levels of bacteria can handle .8ppm and cycle through it that quickly, I should be good to go.

 

[brandon429]

Linked on page one of our cycle thread under types of cycle descriptions #1, well done. Darn good info thread + follow up

Can you post just a semi close-up pic of your live rock spotty coralline we gotta tie in a visual


Barry's mention of curing live rock in a nano is worth detailing, we have a section for it in our thread because that kind of live rock has visual cues just the same which allow us to verify it, and utilize it, without testing (anticipating that die off he mentioned)

The die off overwhelms inherent bac; cleaning most of it off before you use the rock in tank to continue curing is one way to speed up/allowing it to cure and wait is another/not buying that kind but rather simple coralline live rock is another cuz it's always ready

The visual cues for uncured ocean rock are that it's so nice, nobody else's live rock on the whole board looks like it so be skeptical of it being ammonia free.

It will have a diversity/coloration/salad-like plant growth all around, possibly tunicates and sponges, free corals etc you can't find this rock after a few years on average Joe or Jane's reef tank thread here or anywhere, because aquariums typically select down to coralline and the usual visual attachments we're used to given time.

We show pictures of that type of rock vs common live rock, nothing fancy, to show these are two different classes of live rock with fully predictable ammonia profiles.

Dry rock

Vs uncured ocean rock

Vs the ever-trustworthy, drain tolerating, smells normal at the lfs, nothing dead and rotting cloudy in the vat the rock sets in for display, relocating from LFS to home is a breeze common live rock

 

[Idoc]

Update - 12 hours later and all levels read zero after 1.5 (correction from last night) mL of ammonium hydroxide last night. .34 mL = 1 ppm in a 10 gallon tank. I used a total of 55 gallons of water so multiplied by 5.5 to get 1.87 mL for 1ppm. Since I only used 1.5 mL, it should be around .8ppm added.

This has made me fairly confident in bacteria levels.

Small test, but again my thinking is if the levels of bacteria can handle .8ppm and cycle through it that quickly, I should be good to go.

Sounds like good news!