Do you agree with Paul B's method (no QT) ?

Halal Hotdog

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If you look at what you buy why QT? If the thing looks not healthy it is not healthy.

It appears either you are very lucky or are relatively new to all of this. Parasitic, bacterial, and viral infections do not have to show a physical manifestation. The reason most of us QT is because some pathogen wrecked havoc in our DT ,and we lost many fish. NO ONE enjoys QT their fish, but we are trying our best to help keep healthy fish
 

Jay Z

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Tricia, I do have a method. I mention that in the post after yours.
I also volunteer at the Long Island Aquarium and rescue turtles, mermaids, whales and anything else that washes up on the beach behind my house. :)

Humblefish is a good friend of mine. :cool:
Last mermaid I caught I had to throw back. She was underage and undocumented. Sucked. She had nice tail colors.
 

truetricia

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Yes, but only the ones with nice personalities. :cool:

I am just trying to offer a way to keep your fish from dying as I hate to see that happen because I love fish so much. I also love to eat them, but that is another story.

Did you happen to listen to that MACNA talk a few years ago about Eating our Reef? It was really interesting! Your comment made me think of that.

What do you do with the mean mermaids?! ;)
 
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S2G

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Shoot the checklist of rules for no quarantine is just as much of a pain in the butt as actual quarantine. I can't pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time so I'm screwed lol

This reminds me of the chicken pox parties they use to have. 1 kid gets chicken pox then parents send theirs so they can get it over with.
 

William Mumford

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It appears either you are very lucky or are relatively new to all of this. Parasitic, bacterial, and viral infections do not have to show a physical manifestation. The reason most of us QT is because some pathogen wrecked havoc in our DT ,and we lost many fish. NO ONE enjoys QT their fish, but we are trying our best to help keep healthy fish
That makes sense. People that dont do it must have the exact same luck. Must be the rainbow we got to the end of.
 
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sfin52

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HaHa. I love this. Another Paul B doesn't know a fish from Bernie Sanders thread. :D



In the almost fifty years my tank has been running I have had numerous tangs, acanthurus, hippo, sail fin, yellow and the stuff astronauts drink in my tank. I also used to keep mainly puffers and eels. I find those fish boring now and only have a hippo tang as they are really cool looking and have a little personality, unlike most tangs that just swim around going "Doot Da Do, Doot Da do" and waiting for the tang in front of him to decide to turn or eat. ;Wideyed
They die of old age as they should and never get ich.




I can answer this as I have been in this since the 50s. The saltwater hobby started in Europe but came to the States in about 1971. I think it was on a Tuesday and I was there waiting to buy the first blue devils and dominoes that arrived here. (I speak on this)

In those days we had authors like Burgess, Axelrod and Robert Straughn. Straughn was my mentor but I always disagreed with the other two even though they have more degrees than thermometers.

Quarantining was always in style because we didn't know much about parasites, there was no liquid copper,
(we used copper pennies and copper scrubbing pads)
But most importantly we didn't understand the role bacteria played in the fishes immune system.

Also, our tanks were filled with dead coral skeletons as live coral was not available. WE would remove the dead coral weekly to bleach it so it was nice and white.
The fish hated us and always had ich, so much in fact that we had to continuously keep copper (pennies) in the water.
Our tanks were not very healthy.

I discovered in about 1973 or so that If I fed the fish something with living bacteria a few times a week, I could eliminate the copper. I used live blackworms and since about 1975 or so,my fish have never had a parasite or anything else.



And to me, "to Quarantine is irresponsible." It's like that boy in the bubble. He can live in there forever as long as no one enters who also does not live in a bubble and if Nancy Pelosi sneezes near that bubble, he will die.
A quarantined fish always needs to be in quarantine and never have contact with anything with any disease bacteria on it. Is that normal? In the sea fish always eat live prey or seaweed with the associated bacteria and parasites. I have been SCUBA diving for 50 years and never saw a fish in the sea with ich, velvet or anything else.

It is much more normal to have a tank where diseases are a non issue and the fish never get sick and only die of old age. If you ever have a fish that dies from anything else besides jumping out, starving or being bullied, you failed. Sorry, but that was your fault.

Fish should never get sick and if you have a tank where disease bacteria, parasites and vintage Linda Ronstadt music is played, they will live forever.

I have some 28 year old fish along with 10 year old copperband and very old mandarins, pipefish etc. that don't worry about such things. Yes, even tangs, puffers, manta rays and everything else.
My fish always eat and never have to be coddled. Why is that? Am I the smartest fish keeper? I doubt it. Best looking? Well, maybe :rolleyes:

If anyone on here has old, spawning fish that have been quarantined raise your hand. Old fish are not 5 or 6 years old.
How many people have quarantined fish that die only of old age? How many quarantined tanks have never had a disease? How many fish die in quarantine? Don't believe me, look at the disease forum. They usually start out like this:

"I bought such and such a fish and it was eating linguini in the store. I brought it home and before acclimating I dipped it in fresh water, then put it in Prizapro then 60 days in quarantine.

After a week it started swimming near the top of the water. Then it got spots so I dosed copper.
It stopped eating, and the next day it croaked so my wife divorced me and ran away with our butcher even thought my wife is a vegan. :eek:"

But when I get a fish, I bring it home and after 10 minutes of acclimating I put it in my tank. He immediately eats and in 10 or 15 years exhibits senility (depending on what type of fish it is as pipefishdon't live that long but clowns live into their 30s)

The thing dies and my wife is still with me after 45 years but she is not a vegan.

Paul you crack me up. You sense of humor is great and always in the right place.

Again thinks for your insight.
 

saf1

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I love these threads. :)
Almost everyone just doesn't get it. Forgoing quarantine doesn't mean to buy a fish and throw it into any tank. It would probably die as most fish are not kept healthy enough.

I also believe that allowing your fish to become sick is horrible which is why I never let my fish get sick. They are just not allowed to do that. And, yes, I mean velvet and anything else as you have never seen me on a disease thread for these diseases on any forum at any time for any thing except trying to give advice. and I have been on forums since the Roman Empire invented dirt :p

I am also tired of arguing as my fish longevity speaks for themselves so I have nothing to prove. But I will try to offer some advice, even if you want to quarantine. If you don't want this advice, I think there is a re run of Oprah giving away Toyota's to homeless cats. :oops:

Our fish need bacteria in their food as they eat every day in the sea. That is a fact and I didn't make it up, so at least get some live bacteria into your fish and not only from commercially sold food. I use LRS foods and Larry, the owner is a nice guy and I have spoken to him. I love his food and think it is the best "commerical" food there is.

I use it everyday and it even has probiotics which I also think is great. "But", I also feed live worms and/or clams that I buy in a supermarket and freeze myself. It is harder to feed like this but IMO it is needed to get fish immune and keep them immune.

LRS food and all foods do not have disease organisms in them. Most people wouldn't want that rightly so.
There is the problem. If fish never meet disease organisms, they can not stay immune from them.

Immunity in fish, us, Myley Cyrus, Aardvarks, Duck Billed Platypuses and every other living thing requires living disease organisms to stay immune to them.
So, if you do not feed these things, keep quarantining as your fish are not whole fish and have no operating immune system.

That in a nutshell is the reason people fail when they do not quarantine.
Don't downplay my system if you don't know, or don't want to know how to implement it.
Remember, I used to quarantine and was here when we invented it. :cool:

I buy fish with ich, velvet and any other thing I can find just so my fish stay immune. Many times I get fish for free because the store owner knows they will shortly die. I throw them in my tank (and I post about it) The fish may live or die, but the rest of my fish thank me because it strengthens their immunity

Many of my fish are not the easiest to keep and are considered delicate. They wouldn't fare well if I allowed them to get sick.
LRS is good stuff. My tank likes it and I have to say I like supporting small businesses like LRS. Also they have the coolest and most comfy looking fleece sweater that they gave away last year. Not sure who the lucky person was but it sure did look warm and comfy. Winter is coming ;)
 

Crabs McJones

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LRS is good stuff. My tank likes it and I have to say I like supporting small businesses like LRS. Also they have the coolest and most comfy looking fleece sweater that they gave away last year. Not sure who the lucky person was but it sure did look warm and comfy. Winter is coming ;)
Love LRS! :)
 

Halal Hotdog

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We all had that luck until disaster happens. Now we know. Some just have longer luck. Don't be too cocky though.
Give it time, he will end up on the fish disease page looking for advice. I hope that is not the case, but eventually you roll snake eyes and have to start over.
 

sfin52

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Give it time, he will end up on the fish disease page looking for advice. I hope that is not the case, but eventually you roll snake eyes and have to start over.
After 40 years I doubt it @Paul B is legendary. He talked about dropping a fish that had ich into his dt. tank. Paul is not a reefer I want to argue with. His methods speak for themselves.
 

sfin52

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Shoot the checklist of rules for no quarantine is just as much of a pain in the butt as actual quarantine. I can't pat my head and rub my stomach at the same time so I'm screwed lol

This reminds me of the chicken pox parties they use to have. 1 kid gets chicken pox then parents send theirs so they can get it over with.
Been through those as well. Good times
 

Mortie31

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There is nothing natural about a fish tank. There are 300 quintillion gallons of water in the oceans and our tanks have 50-100. Diseases do not have a chance to destroy every fish in the ocean. It does in our tanks. Quarantine.
So isnt your tank an ecosystem? Or have you chemoquarantined everything to within an inch of its life , including corals and inverts, do you wear rubber gloves and sterilise everything. My tank certainly is an ecosystem it may not be a facsimile of the ocean, but it has a huge variety of life, all interdependent on each other.and yes some do eat other.. that’s why I put them in!!! IMO it’s the sterile tanks that always seem to have the most issues and their owners are generally the first ones to turn to drugs and chemicals to sort them out for them, which upsets the balance further...as that’s what so many advocate in here... and never stop to wonder why they have issues...or look to create a natural balance... you need bugs to kill bugs, herbivores to eat algae... it’s not rocket science it’s nature and nature in the main knows what it’s doing, the sea is full of parasites and disease, just as the land around us is... Maybe that is one of the keys to @Paul B success, he encourages nature, actively adds diversity... you can’t have a sterile glass box and just cherry pick the nice colourful ones or pretty sticks, that creates an imbalance...
 
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