Does having a reef packed with corals take up fish space?

[SuncrestReef]

Depending on what fish you have and what type of corals, the corals may actually become the place they take refuge.

That's exactly what happened with my blue chromis and a birdsnest colony:

 

[davidcalgary29]

X Yes! Obviously! Mutiple Kenya Tree clumps will be required to hide the remains of expensive frags that failed on our aquascape.

X No, that's not an issue, because aiptasia is fluid and allows fish to pass easily through it.

X It is potentially an issue, but not something that most reefers should worry about, because luxuriant green hair algae will prevent most polyp growth.

 

[Timfish]

To reiterate Lee Chin Eng's observations corals are filtration. Besides removing nitrogen and phsohprus from the water they are also promoting autotrophic microbial processes which helps maintian an oxygen rich environment.

 

[saltyhog]

For some fish species it can definitely be an issue. A good friend (who posts here) has a six foot tank that is now very mature. Full of large SPS and LPS colonies. I'm talking SPS growing against the glass size colonies. He had a Blue Hippo tang that also grew. As the tank got full of corals he got tremendously stressed from the lack of swimming space and had to be rehomed.

 

[Jay Hemdal]

Massive reef structures do of course take up space - fish can't swim through coral (grin). On the other hand, there are species like some basslets that really prefer coral crevices.

Years ago, I kept finding myself at odds with the tang police. Turns out, it was mostly due to different interpretations of what "100 gallons" is. To me, 100 gallons is a cube of water about 72'x18'x18". In my mind's eye, you can put "X" amount of fish in that much water. To a reef aquarist however, their 100 gallon tank might only have 48"x12"x12" of open water for tangs to swim in!

Earlier this year, I posted my fish swimming space article here:

Estimating the Need for Swimming Space for Aquarium Fishes

This article explores required aquarium sizes for marine fishes

www.reef2reef.com

Jay Hemdal

 

[PeterEde]

I think having an idea of what the tank is helps.


I have a 30 gal. I have a preset idea for no more than 8 fish. I know the size of those fish is going to be pretty small. Then buy corals inline with this idea.

 

[ying yang]

When I set up my first saltwater tank 9 months ago I made a plan and part of that plan was gluing/ mortar rocks together to make 2 rock structures but needed over hangs/ cut throughs and caves and caves as need sleeping quarters and to feel safe if needed and make rock structures so fish can lose sight of other fish but also factored in how corals will grow and how they will grow .I had 0 real experience so Could only research and research and read lots lots threads and I made each plateo and rock jutting out with either a fish or a coral in mind .

I'm a strong believer in having a plan and try to stick to it as best I can ,

 

[LPS Bum]

Depends on the fish, depends on the corals. I have a majority LPS and soft coral tank, so other than a few large leathers, coral growth really isn't an issue. But I suppose if you had a majority SPS tank it could certainly be.

 

[M Stein]

If the corals are crowding your fish, they're also crowding your aquascape.
Your aquascape should be planned to accommodate coral growth, without appearing cluttered and overcrowded.

 

[Rjramos]

Of course is does, but proper planning is everything. 1. Corals that encrust or plate, rather than branching types. 2 . Obviously, gotta be compatible and friendly with each other. Chalices are of this type but can burn neighbors very aggressively! Corals can sting fish too, and the bigger they get, the tighter the space.

 

[Spieg]

Can become a problem just like adding too much rock to a tank.

 

[Bacon505]

I think is will be an issue for mature reef system. Its a good thought to consider when you setup your reef in long term. The 3 tangs in my system now are not freely moving around as they used to now that most of my sps are overgrown. But the positive in a pack reef space is having a bunch of smaller fishes that you’ll see them pop in and out of the corals like how you see in the ocean.

 

[KrisReef]

1) Do coral take up fish space in our reef tanks?
2) At what point(s) should this factor into our reef planning?

Photo of @glennf's beautiful packed reef! (You can check out his build thread HERE)

Thesis
A1: Well AT FIRST BLUSH I was really ticked spazmotically in the storm sphincter that you sir, @Daniel@R2R would post such a glaring attack on all reef keepers and our propensity to overstock our corals because we like them all. As they grow they do fill in space and folks have to start trimming or culling specimens to keep their gardens uncluttered and growing happily. You certainly should remember that the single reason my tank has fish is to feed the coral and because my wife said we like fish (read: "We have to have fish or else get rid of that *x0x0x0* tank!"). So it's a touchy subject for sure because fish also grow and require space, more and more as they grow and feed the corals.
Synthesis
A2: Well I probably should have planned for the growth of the fish and corals when I bought the tank and started stocking it but planning isn't my strong suite Danny Boy. Still, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year because you have provided me with a great defense for a new tank to house her growing population of fish and the corals they love to swim amongst. Gentlemen, it is time for an upgrade!

Wish me luck!

 

[RSnodgrass]

I'm a little perplexed at the 50/50 split so far... are we assuming most reefers will suffer a tank crash killing their coral and thus eliminating that factor?

 

[ProxyAquarist]

....We know that fish need a certain amount of swimming space ...should we be factoring this in? At what point does it become something we need to worry about? ....

1) Do coral take up fish space in our reef tanks?
2) At what point(s) should this factor into our reef planning?

First, if a tank looks that good ... Who cares !

However, when my Novice brain returns to Earth and reality ...

1) Do coral take up fish space in our reef tanks? Yes

2) At what point(s) should this factor into our reef planning? The start, planning rarely helps after the crisis.

I'd follow up on Peace River point, ".... there is a difference between water volume and swimming space. ..."

I think of four factors :
a. Fish Space - This includes the space to roam, space to hide, and space breed. All may require different lighting, volumes, species density, more or less floor space, ... etc.
b. Coral Space - This includes the spaces at different levels, space from others to, space at different PAR, ... etc. Again, all may require different lighting, volumes, species density, ... etc.
c. Viewing Space - This is a human personal and artistic factor.
d. Environment Chemistry Space - This is often over looked and essential for the fish and corals. A 10 gallon tank with a 4 inch sand bed does not have 10 gallons of water. On the other hand, a 100 gallon tank with a 50 gallon sump and 5 gallons of water in the pipes, does not have 100 gallons of water. That said the fish and corals are cut off from the sump and pump water.

That said I see three important numbers :
1. Tank Water Volume - This is the largest possible volume available to inhabitants to use (assuming no one jumps or grows out of the tank).
2. Sump and Pipe Volume - This is the volume of water usually unavailable to the tank inhabitants.
3. Total Water Volume - All water, basically Tank Water Volume plus Sump and Pipe Volume, this is the volume where chemistry happens ! It allows more dilution of nitrate and phosphate. It is the number one calculates dosages from. It affects many aspects of a inhabitants like, but few know the number.

Ideally an aquarist would determine it by filling sections one at a time at the initial completion of a build.

Which brings us back to Question 2. Planning means one considers this from the start !

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a Great 2022,
Jim

 

[Reefvision]

Get a BIG TANK !!! alls good now

 

[Reefvision]

First, if a tank looks that good ... Who cares !

However, when my Novice brain returns to Earth and reality ...

1) Do coral take up fish space in our reef tanks? Yes

2) At what point(s) should this factor into our reef planning? The start, planning rarely helps after the crisis.

I'd follow up on Peace River point, ".... there is a difference between water volume and swimming space. ..."

I think of four factors :
a. Fish Space - This includes the space to roam, space to hide, and space breed. All may require different lighting, volumes, species density, more or less floor space, ... etc.
b. Coral Space - This includes the spaces at different levels, space from others to, space at different PAR, ... etc. Again, all may require different lighting, volumes, species density, ... etc.
c. Viewing Space - This is a human personal and artistic factor.
d. Environment Chemistry Space - This is often over looked and essential for the fish and corals. A 10 gallon tank with a 4 inch sand bed does not have 10 gallons of water. On the other hand, a 100 gallon tank with a 50 gallon sump and 5 gallons of water in the pipes, does not have 100 gallons of water. That said the fish and corals are cut off from the sump and pump water.

That said I see three important numbers :
1. Tank Water Volume - This is the largest possible volume available to inhabitants to use (assuming no one jumps or grows out of the tank).
2. Sump and Pipe Volume - This is the volume of water usually unavailable to the tank inhabitants.
3. Total Water Volume - All water, basically Tank Water Volume plus Sump and Pipe Volume, this is the volume where chemistry happens ! It allows more dilution of nitrate and phosphate. It is the number one calculates dosages from. It affects many aspects of a inhabitants like, but few know the number.

Ideally an aquarist would determine it by filling sections one at a time at the initial completion of a build.

Which brings us back to Question 2. Planning means one considers this from the start !

Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, and a Great 2022,
Jim

 

[Reefvision]

Oops

 

[jcdeng]

I don't think the fishes mind the added hiding places, and makes their lives a little bit less boring when they have to swim around/through stuff.

Thing of concern in a tank where corals grow larger and larger is tank volume. If 2 identical tanks, both 100 gallons, one is fowlr and the other is packed wall to wall with corals. The one with corals obviously has less water, so when it comes time to dose stuff/medicate the tank, you won't know exactly how much to dose, and most people forget about the corals taking up space/volume and dose the amount for 100 gallons which will end up overdosing.

 

[Mark Bradley]

In nature a strong coral reef is abundant with fish - it’s a symbiotic relationship. In the home reef it’s about the needs of the individual fish and good water management. I don’t think this is a ‘yes’ or ‘no’ answer