Don't purchase where possible wild-caught Coral

[Mike Sydney]

An honest coral reseller actually confided in me that wild-caught stony coral,
particularly Acropora has a survival rate of less than 10%.
He had stopped selling wild-caught Acropora for that reason.
It lasts just long enough to be sold plus approximately 2 weeks then dies of RTN.
It is because our reef tank conditions can never match the environment, as hard
as we might try.
Save your money and protect the environment
It is best to buy aquaculture, and a small frag is the best way to ensure this.
And select one that has encrusted growth on the frag itself.
It's also much better for our coral reefs.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

So... I do buy Mariculture for grow out. Which not necessarily wild, still ocean grown frags. I have not seen the issues that you mentioned. Yes, there are changes to the frags, but RTN no.

 

[Mike Sydney]

So... I do buy Mariculture for grow out. Which not necessarily wild, still ocean grown frags. I have not seen the issues that you mentioned. Yes, there are changes to the frags, but RTN no.

So, they are not wild caught?
So your point might be?
Where are they grown, not in California, right?
I don't like tequila
I also see from your thread that you sell Gorgonians they are non-photosynthetic corals that are almost impossible to keep in the tank, many live on fish eggs floating in the water column. Do you sell many of them also, have you asked your customers how long they lasted? Do they still speak to you?

 

[CrashTestBennie]

An honest coral reseller actually confided in me that wild-caught stony coral,
particularly Acropora has a survival rate of less than 10%.
He had stopped selling wild-caught Acropora for that reason.
It lasts just long enough to be sold plus approximately 2 weeks then dies of RTN.
It is because our reef tank conditions can never match the environment, as hard
as we might try.
Save your money and protect the environment
It is best to buy aquaculture, and a small frag is the best way to ensure this.
And select one that has encrusted growth on the frag itself.
It's also much better for our coral reefs.

*insert sad emoji here*

 

[Mike Sydney]

*insert sad emoji here*

Tell me about it, when I found out I remembered all of the Acropora that went to heaven in my tank in the first year. Since I only purchased aquaculture I have not lost a piece
And besides purchasing a large wild-caught colony is just an attempt to impress your mates how great a reef keeper you are. Growing it from the small is much more rewarding

 

[slingfox]

Several of the LFS around me import coral from Asia and Australia. Those shipments include SPS. Those have high death rate primarily because these stores don’t know how to run SPS tanks. The one or two LFS who do know how to keep SPS import only a very small amount of SPS since they run mostly LPS and softy systems which seem to be more popular with the general public. The other major issue is these stores try to sell the wild coral in colony form. That is tough since those SPS colonies grew to that shape in conditions a home tank cannot replicate.

I recently purchased small frags from the best looking colonies. All six frags are doing great. Color has definitely changed, some times dramatically, but nothing has died even when sitting in crappy places in my tank. I am only one month into my experiment though so will see.

 

[TangerineSpeedo]

So, they are not wild caught?
So your point might be?
Where are they grown, not in California, right?
I don't like tequila
I also see from your thread that you sell Gorgonians they are non-photosynthetic corals that are almost impossible to keep in the tank, many live on fish eggs floating in the water column. Do you sell many of them also, have you asked your customers how long they lasted? Do they still speak to you?

My point was to counter your point that the reason not to buy wild caught corals was
"It lasts just long enough to be sold plus approximately 2 weeks then dies of RTN.
It is because our reef tank conditions can never match the environment, as hard
as we might try."
Maricultured coral is grown in the ocean.
I do not sell Gorgonians, I do not know where you got that idea other than maybe there are pictures of them flourishing in my temperate tank?
You seem pretty adversarial this evening on this and other posts.
Is everything OK?
Do you need a ?

 

[likemike99]

I am all for aquacultured coral to preserve the environment but that stat is pure bs. I lived in hawaii for many years and at the time there was on law for home use and I had a 90 % survival rate. just like covid, don't confabulate facts just to get to a good end point.

 

[slingfox]

Tell me about it, when I found out I remembered all of the Acropora that went to heaven in my tank in the first year. Since I only purchased aquaculture I have not lost a piece
And besides purchasing a large wild-caught colony is just an attempt to impress your mates how great a reef keeper you are. Growing it from the small is much more rewarding

I definitely prefer aquaculture SPS since some of the best looking specimen are aquaculture. That said, I have had a lot of aquaculture SPS die in my tank. That was my own doing though!

Marine culture can be fun since you never know what the coral will look like once it adjust to home tank conditions. Other major advantage for aquaculture is there is less risk of pests (theoretically), but that is heavily dependent on the vendor.

 

[Mike Sydney]

Several of the LFS around me import coral from Asia and Australia. Those shipments include SPS. Those have high death rate primarily since these stores don’t know how to run SPS tanks. The one or two LFS who do know how to keep SPS import only a very small amount of SPS since they run mostly LPS and softy systems which seem to be more popular with the general public. The other major issue is these stores try to sell the wild coral in colony form. That is tough since those SPS colonies grew to that shape in conditions a home tank cannot replicate.

I recently purchased small frags from the best looking colonies. All six frags are doing great. Color has definitely changed, some times dramatically, but nothing has died even when sitting in crappy places in my tank. I am only one month into my experiment though so will see.

A lot of SPS from Australia are wild caught in the Great Barrier Reef, and like you say it has a very high death rate, that's because the conditions on the Great Barrier Reef are exceptional and your tank is really downhill for them.
But it's protected you say, well yes, but some people can get a permit to collect. Don't ask it's a sore point.
Asia is both wild caught and beach-run frag tanks that pump water off a reef and let it run back again.
LPS is different they a farmed in Asia aquaculture, and not many are actually from Australia.
I buy only aquaculture SPS since it is already accustomed to tank conditions

 

[Mike Sydney]

I am all for aquacultured coral to preserve the environment but that stat is pure bs. I lived in hawaii for many years and at the time there was on law for home use and I had a 90 % survival rate. just like covid, don't confabulate facts just to get to a good end point.

Are you a coral reseller? lol, Coral resellers can get really sensitive about that information
Now whats COVID got to do with it? Where did that come from?
Lived in Hawaii, of course, you did! lol
Did you surf Waikiki Beach, I used to sit on the sand in front of the Outrigger Waikiki Beach Resort
and watch the super white untanned people from the US come and hire a board, and paddle out so they could say they surfed Waikiki to their mates when they returned, were you one of those?
Not everything that comes from North Carolina is right

 

[slingfox]

There are several vendors that are reputable but which sell a lot of marine culture. One very popular vendor in this message board is SBB Corals. Much of that stock is marine culture, but SBB holds it in their systems for an extended period of time and frag the wild colonies for resale. I don’t hear much complaints about survival of SPS sold by SBB.

Most of the other major vendors also do a lot of importing, particularly for corals which can’t be propagated via aquaculture as economically as SPS. I definitely believe SPS have a higher death rate at local LFS. This is not primarily because they are marine culture, it is because those shops don’t know how to take care of SPS. If those shops were shipped Walt Disney and SCOP colonies I am pretty sure those would have a high risk of death too.

 

[Mike Sydney]

My point was to counter your point that the reason not to buy wild caught corals was
"It lasts just long enough to be sold plus approximately 2 weeks then dies of RTN.
It is because our reef tank conditions can never match the environment, as hard
as we might try."
Maricultured coral is grown in the ocean.
I do not sell Gorgonians, I do not know where you got that idea other than maybe there are pictures of them flourishing in my temperate tank?
You seem pretty adversarial this evening on this and other posts.
Is everything OK?
Do you need a ?

I don't like tequila and tail light guarantee coral sellers

 

[Mike Sydney]

I definitely prefer aquaculture SPS since some of the best looking specimen are aquaculture. That said, I have had a lot of aquaculture SPS die in my tank. That was my own doing though!

Marine culture can be fun since you never know what the coral will look like once it adjust to home tank conditions. Other major advantage for aquaculture is there is less risk of pests (theoretically), but that is heavily dependent on the vendor.

How much of it was your fault?
I was told by a seller, I didn't invent this, and it matched my experience

 

[Mike Sydney]

I definitely prefer aquaculture SPS since some of the best looking specimen are aquaculture. That said, I have had a lot of aquaculture SPS die in my tank. That was my own doing though!

Marine culture can be fun since you never know what the coral will look like once it adjust to home tank conditions. Other major advantage for aquaculture is there is less risk of pests (theoretically), but that is heavily dependent on the vendor.

I dip everything I get, if you don't you a playing roulette

 

[Mike Sydney]

There are several vendors that are reputable but which sell a lot of marine culture. One very popular vendor in this message board is SBB Corals. Much of that stock is marine culture, but SBB holds it in their systems for an extended period of time and frag the wild colonies for resale. I don’t hear much complaints about survival of SPS sold by SBB.

Most of the other major vendors also do a lot of importing, particularly for corals which can’t be propagated via aquaculture as economically as SPS. I definitely believe SPS have a higher death rate at local LFS. This is not primarily because they are marine culture, it is because those shops don’t know how to take care of SPS. If those shops were shipped Walt Disney and SCOP colonies I am pretty sure those would have a high risk of death too.

They are in that case turning it into aquaculture, are they not?
No one goes Acropora from eggs!
And the same ones that used to sell me wild caught that died now sell me aquacultured that doesn't
Life expectancy of marine cultured is crap, because you cannot reproduce that level of water quality

 

[slingfox]

double post

 

[elysics]

How much of that is inherent to wild caught corals and how much of that is because some stores that get wild caught just want to flip as quickly as possible and the wild ones don't do well with being shipped twice+acclimating to a tank and then a different tank in a short amount of time?

 

[elysics]

They are in that case turning it into aquaculture, are they not?
No one goes Acropora from eggs!
And the same ones that used to sell me wild caught that died now sell me aquacultured that doesn't
Life expectancy of marine cultured is ****, because you cannot reproduce that level of water quality

The difference is where the majority of the skeleton grew, not where it spent the last stretch. By the latter definition, nothing would be wild caught because everything spends time in a holding tank or bag of water before getting to you

 

[Mike Sydney]

The difference is where the majority of the skeleton grew, not where it spent the last stretch. By the latter definition, nothing would be wild caught because everything spends time in a holding tank or bag of water before getting to you

That is twaddle, if it is a small frag and has evidence of encrustation of said frag which is the first sign of growth then it is aquaculture even if it came from a piece of wild-caught.
The difference is, that it has demonstrated adaptation to the tank environment.
How hard it that to understand?
If you are a purchaser you would take that as good advice, if you are a reseller I am a threat to your business.
I always knew this was going to be a hot discussion, I did it anyway!
I am on the side of the reef keeper, not the hobby rapist!