Dosing NeoPhos

[tbrown]

I have been dosing NeoPhos for a couple of months. Recently I got gifted a Jebao doser and have been using that. I was hand dosing 10 ml daily (2 hand doses of 5 ml) so I setup the Jebao to dose 1 ml 10 times per day. My phosphates are staying very stable from day to day and hour to hour which is great. I'm doing from a 500 ml NeoPhos bottle that I refill from my bigger jug but it seems like the 500ish ml isn't lasting more than a month.

My question: if the bottle cap is off does the NeoPhos evaporate? And if it evaporates wouldn't it leave a more concentrated solution and cause my phosphates to rise?

 

[blaxsun]

Anything with liquid will evaporate over time.

 

[Michael A Kurolvech]

Have you figured it out? I agree it would evaporate, my only other question would be if the dosing pump is calibrated. My dosing pump for calcium and alkalinity is off I have to set one for 26 ml and the other pump for 28 ml daily to compensate for pumps being calibrated differently.

As far as increasing the concentration of the dose post evaporation i agree. Same as Salinity raising with evaporation. Maybe increasing tank consumption is matching the increased dosage but that's too much of a coincidence for me. LOL

I'm dosing 15ml of the NeoPhos and NeoNitro by hand. Might add pump in the future

 

[tbrown]

Have you figured it out? I agree it would evaporate, my only other question would be if the dosing pump is calibrated. My dosing pump for calcium and alkalinity is off I have to set one for 26 ml and the other pump for 28 ml daily to compensate for pumps being calibrated differently.

As far as increasing the concentration of the dose post evaporation i agree. Same as Salinity raising with evaporation. Maybe increasing tank consumption is matching the increased dosage but that's too much of a coincidence for me. LOL

I'm dosing 15ml of the NeoPhos and NeoNitro by hand. Might add pump in the future

My phosphates aren't rising in the tank and it doesn't seem to affect anything when I top off the dosing container so I'm under the impression that if it's evaporating, the phosphates are evaporating as well or the change in concentration is low enough that my tank doesn't notice the change.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

My phosphates aren't rising in the tank and it doesn't seem to affect anything when I top off the dosing container so I'm under the impression that if it's evaporating, the phosphates are evaporating as well or the change in concentration is low enough that my tank doesn't notice the change.

Phosphate cannot evaporate, and unless you see unexpected large drops in the container volume due to evaporation, the effect of evaporation will be minor.

 

[Troylee]

I have been dosing NeoPhos for a couple of months. Recently I got gifted a Jebao doser and have been using that. I was hand dosing 10 ml daily (2 hand doses of 5 ml) so I setup the Jebao to dose 1 ml 10 times per day. My phosphates are staying very stable from day to day and hour to hour which is great. I'm doing from a 500 ml NeoPhos bottle that I refill from my bigger jug but it seems like the 500ish ml isn't lasting more than a month.

My question: if the bottle cap is off does the NeoPhos evaporate? And if it evaporates wouldn't it leave a more concentrated solution and cause my phosphates to rise?

I use stump remover it’s much cheaper! Lol works great..

 

[tbrown]

Phosphate cannot evaporate, and unless you see unexpected large drops in the container volume due to evaporation, the effect of evaporation will be minor.

I'm dosing 10 ml per day spread out over 10 doses. My phosphates are staying steady but I'm draining a 500 ml bottle in 3-4 weeks. When I was hand dosing it was 2 5ml capfuls a day for the same levels I'm seeing now without adding corals. It's just odd. I feel like I'm going through almost twice as much without additional corals or noticable significant growth and no rise in phosphates in the tank.

 

[Troylee]

I'm dosing 10 ml per day spread out over 10 doses. My phosphates are staying steady but I'm draining a 500 ml bottle in 3-4 weeks. When I was hand dosing it was 2 5ml capfuls a day for the same levels I'm seeing now without adding corals. It's just odd. I feel like I'm going through almost twice as much without additional corals or noticable significant growth and no rise in phosphates in the tank.

My bad! I thought you said Neo nitro lol.. now with neophos.. most likely your rocks are binding it up until they get saturated! Once saturated they will release it back into the system.. is it dry rock or a newer tank? Reef roids will raise your po4 fast and feed the corals on top..

 

[tbrown]

My bad! I thought you said Neo nitro lol.. now with neophos.. most likely your rocks are binding it up until they get saturated! Once saturated they will release it back into the system.. is it dry rock or a newer tank? Reef roids will raise your po4 fast and feed the corals on top..

I used old rock for about half and made Aragocrete rocks for the other half. I feed Reef Roids some but not all the time.

 

[Troylee]

I used old rock for about half and made Aragocrete rocks for the other half. I feed Reef Roids some but not all the time.

Was it dry or live? Any algae issues?

 

[Lavey29]

My bad! I thought you said Neo nitro lol.. now with neophos.. most likely your rocks are binding it up until they get saturated! Once saturated they will release it back into the system.. is it dry rock or a newer tank? Reef roids will raise your po4 fast and feed the corals on top..

I agree, I was dosing neophos early on too and eventually my rocks got saturated and leaching back into the tank which then caused elevated levels of phosphates.

 

[tbrown]

Was it dry or live? Any algae issues?

No real algae issues. Coralline growth and some bubble algae.

 

[tbrown]

Tank is just over a year old. I've been dosing for about 6-7 months. The first two months was at 25 ml per day, then dropped to 10 ml once I started seeing phosphates rising. Currently dosing the 10 ml daily and holding steady at .12 per my Hanna ULR. I just refilled with the remainder of my NeoPhos and will be switching to Loudwolf.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I'm dosing 10 ml per day spread out over 10 doses. My phosphates are staying steady but I'm draining a 500 ml bottle in 3-4 weeks. When I was hand dosing it was 2 5ml capfuls a day for the same levels I'm seeing now without adding corals. It's just odd. I feel like I'm going through almost twice as much without additional corals or noticable significant growth and no rise in phosphates in the tank.

Much of it may be binding to rock and sand.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree, I was dosing neophos early on too and eventually my rocks got saturated and leaching back into the tank which then caused elevated levels of phosphates.

It should not work that way. Phosphate should not come off and ever generate a higher concentration than the rock and sand was initially exposed to.

More likely what happened is that the rock and sand surfaces came to equilibrium
and stopped taking up large amounts. Then the big daily input from foods had fewer sinks to go to, and stayed in the water more, raising levels.

 

[tbrown]

It should not work that way. Phosphate should not come off and ever generate a higher concentration than the rock and sand was initially exposed to.

More likely what happened is that the rock and sand surfaces came to equilibrium
and stopped taking up large amounts. Then the big daily input from foods had fewer sinks to go to, and stayed in the water more, raising levels.

This was my understanding as well. How long does it typically take to get to the equilibrium point? I'm probably close to 100 pounds of rock and 80 pounds of sand. 60 pounds was live rock and 40 pounds was live sand, the rest was new sand and made-by-me rock.

 

[Lavey29]

It should not work that way. Phosphate should not come off and ever generate a higher concentration than the rock and sand was initially exposed to.

More likely what happened is that the rock and sand surfaces came to equilibrium
and stopped taking up large amounts. Then the big daily input from foods had fewer sinks to go to, and stayed in the water more, raising levels.

I agree with the equilibrium part but as my levels started to rise, I cut out all excess sources. Obviously frozen fish food was fed but no coral additives, no pellets, etc... phosphate would continue to rise and GFO or phosguard had no effect because the amount leaching out was to much for them I'm guessing.

Now if one tank has way more rock and sand then another similar size tank wouldn't there be different levels of absorption and subsequent leaching after equilibrium is reached? I think I have more rocks then other set ups and more surface area to absorb phosphate and them more surface area to leach back out.

I know after several months of lanthium chloride use my rocks seemed to have leached all the bound phosphate out because my numbers are low again

 

[Lavey29]

This was my understanding as well. How long does it typically take to get to the equilibrium point? I'm probably close to 100 pounds of rock and 80 pounds of sand. 60 pounds was live rock and 40 pounds was live sand, the rest was new sand and made-by-me rock.

Wouldn't that depend on how much you are introducing to the tank? For me around 2 years seemed to be the equilibrium point.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

This was my understanding as well. How long does it typically take to get to the equilibrium point? I'm probably close to 100 pounds of rock and 80 pounds of sand. 60 pounds was live rock and 40 pounds was live sand, the rest was new sand and made-by-me rock.

Depends a on whether the sand and rock is covered in things like organics that may only slowly exchange with phosphate, but in general, rock and sand surfaces exposed directly to the water will likely come close to equilibrium in a matter of hours, while sand grains below the surface of a sand bed and rock surfaces down in pores will be much slower, from days to almost never.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley Verified Community Expert]

I agree with the equilibrium part but as my levels started to rise, I cut out all excess sources. Obviously frozen fish food was fed but no coral additives, no pellets, etc... phosphate would continue to rise and GFO or phosguard had no effect because the amount leaching out was to much for them I'm guessing.

Folks sometimes do not realize that there is a huge daily throughput of phosphate. Foods typically add 0.02 to 0.3 ppm of phosphate per day, whether it is eaten or not. Thus, changes in sinks will greatly impact whether phosphate is accumulating, and how fast.

https://reefs.com/magazine/aquarium-chemistry-phosphate-and-math-yes-you-need-to-understand-both/