Dosing solutions

[DmitryB]

I want to get dosing solutions for my newly set up IM 40. (I'll have an IM 170 later on and will be using Apex for that.) I'll be keeping softies and LPS corals there. (I've already ordered a few including a Torch, a Lepto, a Fan). I'll need to start dosing - but dosing what? What are people's favorite dosing solutions? And is All For Reef really good for everything you need in one mix? It'd definitely be a lot simpler to just make one mix and drop that in... So what are people using?

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

You are just starting to add LPS. Just do water changes until your Alk readings say that is no longer enough. Then add AFR as indicated by your Alk. Once the tank is more established you can do an ICP-MS test and supplement whatever else is needed.

 

[DmitryB]

Do you test for Magnesium, Alkaline, etc., independently or just send out an ICP-MS test? How often do you do ICP-MS?

 

[Euphylliaphyle]

Do you test for Magnesium, Alkaline, etc., independently or just send out an ICP-MS test? How often do you do ICP-MS?

Against advice, I test Alk, Mg and Ca at home in addition to other parameters (you can see in my build thread). My results have pretty good agreement with ICP-MS. I believe these tests all give close-enough data if you are using good test kits and are diligent with cleanliness, carefully measure everything with as much precision as possible, avoid spillage and stay mindful of what step you are taking as you test, but use Alk as your dosing guide. I test others just to see if, over time, things get out of whack. The others will mostly follow the Alk.
ICP-MS is expensive. I would wait until your tank is stocked for 6-9 months, then perhaps quarterly afterward unless you just made large adjustments to minor and trace elements based on your prior ICP-MS, or if there is a major tank problem that you cannot find a cause for.
I view it this way: Major elements (Alk, Ca, Mg), test frequently at home. Same for nutrients. Re-test a few days after making any changes to your supplementation program. Use ICP-MS as required to get a handle on minor and trace elements, or to look for problem causes.
I don't bother with other, non-MS ICP tests. They cost less but leave more unanswered questions.

 

[mmorrison55]

At home Mg test can be temperamental. You can try and test for it, but I would be skeptical of the results. Mainly want to see if you can get repeatable numbers when testing. If you see that mg is jumping all over the place, don’t panic, I would say it’s likely the test itself.

I also dose AFR.

I personally have a Neptune trident that tests my main 3 (alk, ca, and mg) but im mostly concerned with Alk which is a very easy test to do on a Hannah if you wanted to test it manually. I do like that it’s test alk a few times a day. i mostly use it to track how they trend.

If I were starting new, I’d look into the aquawiz tester that tests alk without any reagents. I would Dose AFR once I knew my Alk needs, and how much I need to dose daily. And then not worry so much about ca and mg. Send off the occasional icp, and as long as they say your ca and mg are in range, you should be good. AFR takes take of all 3, thats the beauty and ease of the product. If you can get the Alk dialed in, the other two should be right there as well.


But as was already posted, if you are just starting out. Find a salt mix that has the alk in the range you want, and just do water changes to control Alk until you start adding more corals and notice the alk is being depleted via a reliable home alk test kit or something automated like the aquawiz or trident.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Do you test for Magnesium, Alkaline, etc., independently or just send out an ICP-MS test? How often do you do ICP-MS?

I do not recommend testing Ca or Mg (just alk) if you use AFR. It will adequately keep calcium and magnesium in line, and magnesium testing at home is too often inaccurate to use to guide dosing.

 

[DmitryB]

Thank you all!

 

[rtparty]

Water changes weekly until they can't keep up. Then add in AFR dosing and test alkalinity weekly. Easy peasy

 

[exnisstech]

Do you test for Magnesium, Alkaline, etc., independently or just send out an ICP-MS test? How often do you do ICP-MS?

I only test Nitrate, phosphate and alkalinity on a regular basis. Calcium once every few months but I've never had to make adjustments.
I personally don't feel the need for ICP testing so I don't do them.
This tank has been up for 3+ years and I only dose AFR to maintain alk.

All grown from little frags.

2+ years and this one only gets ESV 2 part. I used ESV on the tank I moved from so I just stayed with it.

I think AFR is easiest. As mentioned you may not even need to dose. Many get by with just WCs.

 

[Evensong]

I do not recommend testing Ca or Mg (just alk) if you use AFR. It will adequately keep calcium and magnesium in line, and magnesium testing at home is too often inaccurate to use to guide dosing.

Can I ask a clarifying question on this, bc my 200gal system is still pretty lightly stocked, and I'm slowly ramping it up. Biweekly water changes are keeping Ca and Mg steady, but Alk drops ~0.16 dKH per day.

I picked up Aquaforest's 3 part a while back, but haven't started using it; instead I'm just dosing sodium bicarbonate to maintain Alk, and trusting my water changes (Aquaforest Hybrid Pro) to maintain everything else until consumption increases.

My understanding was that -- at this stage of my reef -- dosing an all-in-one like AFR to maintain Alk would "overdose" Ca, Mg, etc. Is that misguided?

 

[DmitryB]

Do you test for Magnesium, Alkaline, etc., independently or just send out an ICP-MS test? How often do you do ICP-MS?

Beautiful tanks! I ordered a few corals online, so I'll gonna be getting hands- on experience soon. I'm glad there's an "all in one" solution for this. What do people with Tridents do? Because I bought one (for the larger yet-to-be set up system.)

Also with AFR, do you dose by hand manually or do you have an auto dose set up? And if auto, what do you use?

 

[exnisstech]

What do people with Tridents do

I have no idea TBH. I've never used any controllers or auto testers. I like simple so I stay away from most of the cool tech. I only have my SPS tank on a doser. I manually dose 3 other tanks every morning.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

My understanding was that -- at this stage of my reef -- dosing an all-in-one like AFR to maintain Alk would "overdose" Ca, Mg, etc. Is that misguided?

Correct, that is misguided, and this is frequently misunderstood by reefers. :)

Adding 0.16 dKH per day of alk will add only 1 ppm of calcium and less than 0.1 ppm of magnesium per day. To see that drop with a kit would take weeks for calcium and months for magneisum.

By the time you see it, you then need to add a corrective dose that amounts to all that you missed.

The only real caveat to this is if you are using a sulfur denitrator that rapidly depletes alkalinity. That issue needs an alk only correction.

Rising nitrate also depeltes alk, but the effect is not big enough to cause a problematic calcium rise with AFR. A 50 ppm rise in nitrate will deplete 2.3 dKH of alk, and if you use AFR to offset that alk depetion, calcium rises less than 20 ppm.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I use AFR on a BRS 1.1 ml per min doser with a simple electronic timer.

 

[Evensong]

Correct, that is misguided, and this is frequently misunderstood by reefers. :)

Adding 0.16 dKH per day of alk will add only 1 ppm of calcium and less than 0.1 ppm of magnesium per day. To see that drop with a kit would take weeks for calcium and months for magneisum.

By the time you see it, you then need to add a corrective dose that amounts to all that you missed.

The only real caveat to this is if you are using a sulfur denitrator that rapidly depletes alkalinity. That issue needs an alk only correction.

Rising nitrate also depeltes alk, but the effect is not big enough to cause a problematic calcium rise with AFR. A 50 ppm rise in nitrate will deplete 2.3 dKH of alk, and if you use AFR to offset that alk depetion, calcium rises less than 20 ppm.

Appreciate it, Randy!

I'm not using a sulfur denitrator, but I was dosing ammonium bicarbonate for a week to gradually bring nitrates up. Currently, nitrate is between 5-10ppm (closer to 10) according to my Red Sea kit, phosphates are at 0.15ppm (Hanna ULR), and both have been stable for a week or so with increased feeding, so no more ammonium dosing for now.

I'll start using the AF 3 part, and see how it goes.

 

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Sounds good.

Happy reefing!