DSR USA Q&A

[glennf]

I am curious about the process of swapping from an already running system to change it over to dsr and back? Specifically this got me curious how the carbon dosing to remove nitrate and phosphate affects the nitrifying bacteria?

Is swapping to dsr as simple as adding power filter then running the initial tests day 1, day 6, day 14 and dosing on each of those based on the test results entered into the calculator? Then maintaining a regular test/dosing schedule?

What happens to the nitrifying bacteria when you have a fully stocked tank both coral and fish and you decide to stop dsr? Does the tank crash because the nitrifying bacteria is not built up enough to handle the bio load in it's own?

In DSR we rely on CarbonVS for the growth of bacteria to consume NO3. For this proces to work a small portion of PO4 is required.
To target PO4 surplus we use Fe+
The EZCarbon target both NO3 and PO4 and is easier to use.

(De)Nitrification only remove N, so you still need something else to remove your PO4 surplus.

That's why DSR don't build in the so much "valued" nitrification proces.
I find it an advantage to skip the use of massive scapes, because DSR tanks can do without large quantities of liferock. Which is also part of the sustainable reefing solutions.

CarbonVS and Fe dosing is so much more effective in a the DSR reefing solution we discard the nitrification.

Most reefers i know choose to switch to DSR because the were struggling with a high nutrients problem. So with this in mind and the flexibility of the system why would you want to switch back to another system with so much requirements (LR) and limitations (scape)?

DSR tanks has been known to turn heads and the gras is always greener on the otherside.
But Never change a winning team. When your tank is running just fine and you're happy with it, stick to what you're doing.
There is always a risk...
Every switch will require you to (re)tune your system. You need to learn how to (fine)tune with the new tools. The faster you learn the less impact it will have on your running system.

Most tank i studied perform at 30% of their potential. So once you start reading, learning and do the dosings the only way to go is up...
Above mentioned applies to nutrient management.

The macro and Trace element management is quite easy.
you start dosing when it's required (low).

Imbalance are easy controlled with fullDSR components. Use the DSR calculator for this purpose http://dsrreefing.com/compactcalc/

Tankcrashes are because you neglect multiple warning sign en don't follow the rules.
By measuring and observation you keep track of the dynamics in your tank.
When you do something drastic as removing a carbon source you should keep track and act accordingly. I.e. slowly decrease and monitor.

Keep in mind when you're use to the ease of use from carbon dosing falling back to more classic ways is always hard.......

So the (avoidable) crash is not about blaming the systems, but about misjudgement and keeping track during mayor changes.

 

[glennf]

Also, how does the ez compare to the full dsr method in terms of what elements are maintained in the ez vs full? I realize the ez has 4 products, but do some of those products ballpark maintain multiple elements? Ie.. trace elements mixture doses all the ones from the full system in a ez solution that you've worked out a general mixture that can be assumed to be close to correct dosing all the elements by testing one or two elements in the ez system? So you still get a full dosing, just in an ez format that gets you in the ballpark through educated guesses on a single trace element solution?

This would still be a "full" dsr system but just in an ez format because it's not as granular control over trace elements because you are trusting the trace elements cocktail to get you close enough.

With fullDSR you have full control at your disposal. It is the original system with a technical approach. It's also a great problem solver. But it also required users to read into the matter and do their own mixing to get started.
It also required a minimum of 5-8 dedicated dosingchannels to get started with.
Starting with:
Alk, Calcium/Strontium, CarbonVS, Fe+, Iodine
Regular measurement were required to determine the consumption of most DSR elements
This is the fullDSR calculator

DSRcalculator

Download excel sheet ENG: Use button to download full macro enabled version. Forum registration required. NL: Gebruik de knop om de volledige versie te downloaden. Forum registratie vereist. FR: Utilisez le bouton pour télécharger la version complète. Inscription au forum requise. (link update...

dsrreefing.com

The first impresssion can be overwhelming

EZ is is fact fullDSR made easy (it's all in the name)
With the knowledge gained from years using fullDSR on several mixed reefs we determined a pattern which was used to develop the EZ mixtures.
Now you start with 4 dosing channels and a lot of parameters need less testing.
All EZ supplement are ready to dose. No more screwups due to self mixing.

The startup is lot easier when using the recommendations in the ezcalculator.

EZcalc20 (final release)

dsrreefing.com

 

[swiss1939]

In DSR we rely on CarbonVS for the growth of bacteria to consume NO3. For this proces to work a small portion of PO4 is required.
To target PO4 surplus we use Fe+
The EZCarbon target both NO3 and PO4 and is easier to use.

(De)Nitrification only remove N, so you still need something else to remove your PO4 surplus.

That's why DSR don't build in the so much "valued" nitrification proces.
I find it an advantage to skip the use of massive scapes, because DSR tanks can do without large quantities of liferock. Which is also part of the sustainable reefing solutions.

CarbonVS and Fe dosing is so much more effective in a the DSR reefing solution we discard the nitrification.

Most reefers i know choose to switch to DSR because the were struggling with a high nutrients problem. So with this in mind and the flexibility of the system why would you want to switch back to another system with so much requirements (LR) and limitations (scape)?

DSR tanks has been known to turn heads and the gras is always greener on the otherside.
But Never change a winning team. When your tank is running just fine and you're happy with it, stick to what you're doing.
There is always a risk...
Every switch will require you to (re)tune your system. You need to learn how to (fine)tune with the new tools. The faster you learn the less impact it will have on your running system.

Most tank i studied perform at 30% of their potential. So once you start reading, learning and do the dosings the only way to go is up...
Above mentioned applies to nutrient management.

The macro and Trace element management is quite easy.
you start dosing when it's required (low).

Imbalance are easy controlled with fullDSR components. Use the DSR calculator for this purpose http://dsrreefing.com/compactcalc/

Tankcrashes are because you neglect multiple warning sign en don't follow the rules.
By measuring and observation you keep track of the dynamics in your tank.
When you do something drastic as removing a carbon source you should keep track and act accordingly. I.e. slowly decrease and monitor.

Keep in mind when you're use to the ease of use from carbon dosing falling back to more classic ways is always hard.......

So the (avoidable) crash is not about blaming the systems, but about misjudgement and keeping track during mayor changes.

I am just starting my tank and willing to try this method because it seems enticing to me to try. For your normal uses I'm sure people wouldn't plan on switching off, but for someone like me who is trying it as their first tank attempt, switching off may be necessary if it isn't working out for me. So it's a bit general and inappropriate to state why would someone switch off it? Your website even suggests people can both switch over to dsr and stop using it.. which is why i even wondered about how the bacteria would be affected by this. Nevermind the fact that if these dsr chemicals ever go extinct, that is another reason someone would need to switch off the system.

Either way i think you answered it by stating that less lr is needed on dsr hence the bacteria colony is probably not sufficient to handle a fully stocked tank on its own after coming off dsr "cold turkey" without some prep work such as "weening off" it.

I am looking forward to trying this method purely out of interest and because I'm more concerned with spillage in water mixing and changes in my apartment. The idea of having a system to keep track of and guide dosing to maintain the water without constant water changes is more appealing to me. The lr in my tank is set and won't be changed just because of the switch to this method so that is not important to me.

Appreciate the responses and more detailed description of the ez vs full dsr!

 

[Daniel@R2R]

We'll try to do so.
Most faq are general,so that should be easy enough to start with.
In my experience every country has it's specific questions. So depending on the questions we will expand these faq.

Yep. @glennf some English articles on DSR would be great to add here on R2R to our article database. My first thoughts are an overview article, and a tutorial on making a power filter. Let me know if you have some writers who'd like to do that and we can make it happen.

 

[swiss1939]

Yep. @glennf some English articles on DSR would be great to add here on R2R to our article database. My first thoughts are an overview article, and a tutorial on making a power filter. Let me know if you have some writers who'd like to do that and we can make it happen.

DIY Powerfilter

I came across the concept of a power filter after reading about the DSR method on here. Couldn't find much about it other than the very basic and minimal thread of the dsr reefing nl forum, so i figured I'd post my version of a power filter that i put together here for others. Glenn f suggests...

www.reef2reef.com

 

[swiss1939]

Ok with all the forum posts on dsr website and on here about the dsr ez method, i am still lost on the actually process to calculating your dosing for each of the products based on your test results. I understand there is a dsr ez calculator but there is literally no instruction on exactly how to use the calculator for start dosing and to figure out adjustment to dosing with continued testing.

What goes in the value field? Results from my test kits? If so, what test goes into buffer? Alk or ph? What goes into trace? What goes into carbon? Each of these products are dosing to correct for multiple elements, but your calculator doesn't specify which element you need to test for and use in the calculator to figure out your dosing for that product.

Set point i assume is the target you want to maintain for that tested element? And daily dosage i assume is the max dose that i should break up into smaller doses across the whole day to cumulative meet.

I've ordered the ez chems to start this but am trying to understand the real world testing and dosing workflow with this calculator beyond the broad sales pitch statements that are most often shared here.

 

[pitt]

I star used 2 weeks ago with a power filter and trace elements an ex carbon with a calcium reactor

 

[swiss1939]

How long that tank up prior to it?

I just started manually dosing EZ-Buffer 6 days ago and EZ-Carbon 4 days ago.

 

[pitt]

With very good results and no more water change.

 

[pitt]

Is one year tank old I star dosin phosphate and nitrate because the EZ carbon is very effective especially for phosphate .

 

[Doglips56]

I'm very excited to see this product making its way to the US!!

Have you tried it?

 

[dank reefer]

I am getting ready to switch the Wife's 60g cube over to the EZ method soon. I just rigged up a Sicce .05 pump yesterday as a PF and have placed it in the sump as I do not have any magnets to mount it in the DT yet.

I did a water change a couple of days ago to bring my NO3, and PO4 down, and try and level my ALK again. And I will start dosing EZBuffer. and EZCalcium this weekend, but I am pretty nervous dosing EZCarbon 0as I do not know what the starting dose should be.

@glennf - Could you give me insight on where to start off with EZCarbon?

 

[dank reefer]

I have a couple of Neptune WAV pumps from my old build that are not being used, and remembered that the magnets from those pumps were strong and slim. Using a Sicce .5 pump as a PF and it fit real nice on the magnet, and the magnet didn't have to be drilled.

Here it is in action!

 

[Goubli]

How's the pf doing in the main tank compared with the sump?

 

[dank reefer]

How's the pf doing in the main tank compared with the sump?

Pretty good so far. Keep on pulling a bunch of junk out but seems at a faster rate.

 

[Cory]

Does the power filter need to be in the main display or is it okay just in the sump?

 

[X-37B]

I have run a modified dsr since setting up my 120 22 months ago.
I run a carx with manmade media
So it only replaces alk and ca.
Alk at 7 ca at 420.
I run ez trace at 6ml a day and it keeps my mag at 1350 and K at 420.
I dose strontium weekly to keep it at 8-10.
I dose ez carbon at 5ml a day currently.
Was up to 15 and backed off when my algae on the glass turned white.
Start low and work your way up as its strong.
I run an over size skimmer now, Tunze 9430 dc.
My p04 target is below .1 and has been as high as .3 with no ill effects or any algae issues.
My no3 ran 15-20 before replacing a 9410 dc with the 9430.
It now runs <5.
I use a 7" filter sock and no power filter.
I have done 3 10 gallon water changes in 22 months.
I noticed no difference but now just do 1 10 gal every 4 months to remove anything I cant test for.
I have 14 fish and feed heavy at 8+ cubes a day.
I believe in heavy in heavy out.
My tank is mostly sps with a few lps.
Did I mention I hate disco mushrooms, lol.
Also not a fan of the famous great rock wall method.
35lbs live 35lbs caribsea works well for me.
I run my frag system the same way except I use esv 1&2 daily ny hand instead of a carx.

 

[dank reefer]

Does the power filter need to be in the main display or is it okay just in the sump?

Here is a link to where Glenn describes the PF and where is can be mounted.

What is a power filter ?

What is a power filter ?

www.dsrreefing.nl

 

[Cory]

Here is a link to where Glenn describes the PF and where is can be mounted.

What is a power filter ?

What is a power filter ?

www.dsrreefing.nl

Thanks. Now im wondering if he uses cotton or polyester wool? I think cotton would remove finer particles than polyester would.

 

[dank reefer]

Thanks. Now im wondering if he uses cotton or polyester wool? I think cotton would remove finer particles than polyester would.

Here is what it's taken out of the tank in 3 days