Euphyllia disintegrating

lostmylenscap

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My hammer and frogspawn frag started to look a little shriveled last week after my water change and algae removal maintenance and tonight I’m watching them literally fall apart before my eyes.

I’ve attached some before and current pictures. The frogspawn isn’t actively melting like the hammer but I did see a tiny piece of it stuck to some rock in the back so I’m assuming polyp bailout.

When they remained shrunk for a solid couple days after water change I tested my water again.
Ph was lower than usual (7.8)...but I did disturb the sand more while sucking up algae, as occasionally I’ve had that happen and it usually goes back up after about 24 hours but halfway through the week the coral is still pretty shrunken but my water parameters are the same as usual:

Ph: 8.0
KH: 7
Ammonia:0
Nitrate: 2
Nitrite: 0
Ca: 450
Mg: ~1500
Salinity 1.026
77 degrees F

and then I remember I gently scrubbed the algae off my zoa/paly frags and cut a few errant palys off a small chunk of live rock with an exacto knife (used the old water bucket to keep them submerged for this process) during the water change, and maybe I wasn’t careful enough and I thought to myself maybe now the LPS is being poisoned by palytoxin and that’s the issue?
I go buy a new bag of Chemipur Blue to try and fix that possible problem
And about 24 hours later the euphyllia are dying right in front of me in real time.

I guess I’m just hoping for someone to tell me if the palytoxin theory is right at this point since I doubt they’re going to survive the night now :(

C4912144-552C-4E8B-80F9-A394B80BF1CA.jpeg EFF5CCF9-FC3A-4610-BB6A-0EA018CD7EFE.jpeg 13744347-9FF2-46CE-8821-2DA4774BE393.jpeg 693FA72B-3303-41B2-B663-2FCC5170A225.jpeg 354BAF3D-E083-4548-B080-BEE84E93C177.jpeg
 
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footgal

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Oh man I'm so sorry! The hammer looks like its also suffering from BJD (brown jelly disease) as well as being bleached. Its probably a goner and you should get it out because BJD can infect nearby LPS and kill them too.

You may be right about the polyp bail out. With euphyllia, the entire polyp falls out of the skeleton and floats away. I dont see polyp bail out and the skin around the skeleton actually looks like a fairly healthy brown color. If that picture is accurate, I believe the frog still has a chance.

I dont think palytoxin exposure caused this. I cut dozens of zoas a month that grow on my glass so I have to cut them inside the tank. I have a huge euphyllia garden that does very well. Its only a 20 gallon tank with no carbon so I'd think that if palytoxin were an issue I'd've seen the effects by now. I dont know what your problem is but at least we know what it isnt.

When did you get these pieces? How did they look in the store? Were they very open and happy before that water change (The hammer looks a little bleached in the pics)? Did you change salts or do anything during that water change? Are you dosing anything to help with your algae?

Im sorry this is happening to you, lets try to fix the problem so hopefully we can save the frog
 
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lostmylenscap

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Oh man I'm so sorry! The hammer looks like its also suffering from BJD (brown jelly disease) as well as being bleached. Its probably a goner and you should get it out because BJD can infect nearby LPS and kill them too.

You may be right about the polyp bail out. With euphyllia, the entire polyp falls out of the skeleton and floats away. I dont see polyp bail out and the skin around the skeleton actually looks like a fairly healthy brown color. If that picture is accurate, I believe the frog still has a chance.

I dont think palytoxin exposure caused this. I cut dozens of zoas a month that grow on my glass so I have to cut them inside the tank. I have a huge euphyllia garden that does very well. Its only a 20 gallon tank with no carbon so I'd think that if palytoxin were an issue I'd've seen the effects by now. I dont know what your problem is but at least we know what it isnt.

When did you get these pieces? How did they look in the store? Were they very open and happy before that water change (The hammer looks a little bleached in the pics)? Did you change salts or do anything during that water change? Are you dosing anything to help with your algae?

Im sorry this is happening to you, lets try to fix the problem so hopefully we can save the frog
I got the hammer 2 months ago, and it and all the others, even the big ones, in the shop were that color so I assumed it was just a pastel looking one, since there’s so many colors haha
It was a little rough looking when it expanded in my tank but appeared to grow back a lot of flesh for a while and get bigger so I thought I was doing well.
Haven’t dosed anything for the algae since I got the coral because I was afraid of irritating it.
Got the Frogspawn Oct 29th, because the hammer was so much bigger and fluffier than when I first got it I was feeling confident haha
Here’s a picture from when I first got it, and it’s most recent nicest looking state before it went south
 

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footgal

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I got the hammer 2 months ago, and it and all the others, even the big ones, in the shop were that color so I assumed it was just a pastel looking one, since there’s so many colors haha
It was a little rough looking when it expanded in my tank but appeared to grow back a lot of flesh for a while and get bigger so I thought I was doing well.
Haven’t dosed anything for the algae since I got the coral because I was afraid of irritating it.
Got the Frogspawn Oct 29th, because the hammer was so much bigger and fluffier than when I first got it I was feeling confident haha
Here’s a picture from when I first got it, and it’s most recent nicest looking state before it went south
Looks like the hammer definitely wasn’t in the best shape when you bought it but it was definitely getting better! I wonder what happened and I’m sorry for your loss :(. How’s the frog doing?
 
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lostmylenscap

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Looks like the hammer definitely wasn’t in the best shape when you bought it but it was definitely getting better! I wonder what happened and I’m sorry for your loss :(. How’s the frog doing?
Yeeaaah...it was my first coral so I was pretty hyped it was only $10 and cool looking so didn't do a thorough check of it haha
It appears to be pinching off the holes that burst open last night...maybe it's trying to stay alive? Still looks like garbage but not as bad as last night?
The frog is still pretty shrunken
Just did my weekly water change, so we'll see if that has any effect.

Just realized I never said how big the tank was haha
10 gallon - just did a 2 gallon water change just because couldn't hurt, yeah?
I normally just do a 1 gallon change each week and everything has stayed pretty stable
 

footgal

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Yeeaaah...it was my first coral so I was pretty hyped it was only $10 and cool looking so didn't do a thorough check of it haha
It appears to be pinching off the holes that burst open last night...maybe it's trying to stay alive? Still looks like garbage but not as bad as last night?
The frog is still pretty shrunken
Just did my weekly water change, so we'll see if that has any effect.

Just realized I never said how big the tank was haha
10 gallon - just did a 2 gallon water change just because couldn't hurt, yeah?
I normally just do a 1 gallon change each week and everything has stayed pretty stable
That sounds like it should be fine. A $10 hammer is a really good deal especially from an LFS. I think it might’ve been one of those “Too good to be true” deals unfortunately.

Can I have some updated pics please?
 
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That sounds like it should be fine. A $10 hammer is a really good deal especially from an LFS. I think it might’ve been one of those “Too good to be true” deals unfortunately.

Can I have some updated pics please?
Yeah, it must’ve been lucky at the time I’ve never seen anything as cool in their little $10 frag tank again since haha
Just took these:
 

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footgal

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Yeah, it must’ve been lucky at the time I’ve never seen anything as cool in their little $10 frag tank again since haha
Just took these:
They both actually look okay, not the best condition but definitely not dead! Shrinking a little, probably around 50% of where they’re usually at right? Maybe try feeding some reefroids or something like that if you have it available
 
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They both actually look okay, not the best condition but definitely not dead! Shrinking a little, probably around 50% of where they’re usually at right? Maybe try feeding some reefroids or something like that if you have it available
Yeah the center tentacles are the really pulled in ones on both, but the outside ones are trying to puff a little
I was wary of spraying food over possible open wounds, but it makes sense that they probably can’t heal on an empty stomach haha
 
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There appears to be no improvement so far... all I’ve really done is water changes and observation, as I’m not sure what else to do but here’s what they look like now:

The hammer goes through weird phases where when it’s shrinking more at night the polyps burst open or tear? Then in the morning it appears to have pinched off its wounds and does it’s best to re-inflate a little.
The frogspawn just appears to be clamped closed, like it’s trying to hide its mouth during the day when the lights on, and at night when it shrinks back and I can see the mouth it looks weirdly swollen and big.

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No BJD you already guessed it likely zoa/toxin burn an maybe even an ammonia burn. adding in the Chemipur Blue likely took all the nutrients out of the water further stressing the coral when it's trying to repair.
believe it or not algae growing in the display is like a band-aid for your tank. if not for the algae your params likely would have melted the corals keep this in mind before you ever just take rocks out to scrap. have you solved the problem that created it to begin with? if not your likely pulling off the tourniquet
an remove those Vsnails
 
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No BJD you already guessed it likely zoa/toxin burn an maybe even an ammonia burn. adding in the Chemipur Blue likely took all the nutrients out of the water further stressing the coral when it's trying to repair.
believe it or not algae growing in the display is like a band-aid for your tank. if not for the algae your params likely would have melted the corals keep this in mind before you ever just take rocks out to scrap. have you solved the problem that created it to begin with? if not your likely pulling off the tourniquet
an remove those Vsnails
Thank you!
I don’t believe I’ve fixed the problem as the euphyllia still look pretty bad.
Are you saying I should remove the carbon?
And my ammonia tests are still coming back at 0 like before so why do you think it’s ammonia burn?
I also noticed the snail but I didn’t want to further annoy the Frogspawn, is it ok for me to chip it of
 

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Mag is slightly high as is salinity
Assure moderate water flow and lighting
Feed 2x weekly once stable

salinity 1.025
Mag 1300
Alk 8-9
Ph 8.1 - 8.3
CA. 450
Ammonia < .05
Nitrate. < .04

I would elevate yours a little in case sand is blowing into it and irritating it
 
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Unfortunately I got home from work to find that the hammer lost it’s battle and was an empty skeleton :(
The frog looks the same as it’s looked for the last couple days, no better, no worse.
I’ve removed the skeleton and will be keeping an eye on the frog
Was thinking about ordering some Koral Recover from Brightwell Aquatics to see if I could perk it back up?
 

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have you tried feeding it meaty food like finely chopped mysid or rods food or similar yet? Does it Successfully eat? In a new tank with such low nutrient it’s my first guess as others have said if no obvious signs of infection. I also wouldn’t do more water changing I would just keep It consistent
Pic of the frogspawn would help to assessits current state. Are other coral ok?
IMO infection or starvation either way it ain’t gettin better without action and euphyllia die fast. I would manually hand feed until successful and also dip in something if I thought it was or had obtained an infection. I believe WWC mentions amino bathing sick coral to allow them to gain nutrition through absorption which is easy for them to do. Interesting concept but have never tried.
GL and let us know how it goes!
 
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have you tried feeding it meaty food like finely chopped mysid or rods food or similar yet? Does it Successfully eat? In a new tank with such low nutrient it’s my first guess as others have said if no obvious signs of infection. I also wouldn’t do more water changing I would just keep It consistent
Pic of the frogspawn would help to assessits current state. Are other coral ok?
IMO infection or starvation either way it ain’t gettin better without action and euphyllia die fast. I would manually hand feed until successful and also dip in something if I thought it was or had obtained an infection. I believe WWC mentions amino bathing sick coral to allow them to gain nutrition through absorption which is easy for them to do. Interesting concept but have never tried.
GL and let us know how it goes!
It’s been keeping its polyps all clamped in the middle covering its mouth so I don’t think I’ve gotten it to eat successfully, although I’ve been attempting to spot feed them every night so far...they just don’t appear to really take much in.
I’ll research that, and see about giving it a try if it sounds good!
 

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Try turning all pumps off and placing food on the mouth and wait (a while) for it to engulf. May take a couple tries, I have done this for all my Euphyllia although some seem harder to feed. Use finely chopped or zooplankton type food
 
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