Fed up with Apex

[Snookin]

I share your frustrations with Neptune. At the start of my build 3-4 years ago,I had very elaborate plans to use my Apex to automate as much as possible on my system. Initially I had one head unit controlling 4-5 tanks with over (30) devices. Then about (6) months into using my 2016 Apex, the head unit somehow lost the program file. Neptune customer service could not tell me why this happened or that it wouldn’t happen again. At the time I didn’t know you could back up the program in case this were to happen. Needless to say I spent (6) hours of my Friday night reprogramming my system.

Moving forward, I started experiencing issues with my head unit locking up for several hours at a time. Sometimes I could restart the Apex to resolve the issue, sometimes I’d have to cycle power, etc. This went on for several months until I came home one evening and the head unit had the purple light of death. Luckily I had just purchased a backup head unit and installed it while my old unit was shipped back. Unfortunately, even with the ability to download the old program, there is not a way to actually clone the head unit for direct replacement. You have to keep track of the order of each device and plug them in on by one. This was nearly impossible to do on my system with so many devices and cables. I also have all my cables wire tied and in sideways making it a huge task to pull apart. I then had to start the entire system over from scratch at about midnight that night.

At this point, my blood is boiling as my system is completely torn apart and I have no clue if everything has been programmed correctly. I reached out to Neptune several times via. email and phone calls to try to speak with the Curt Pansegrau (the owner) in hopes of finding out what was causing these issues and seeking reassurance that these issues would be resolved. I never heard back from Curt and always received the run around from customer support. They didn’t care that I had purchased over $10k in Neptune/Apex equipment or that their faulty equipment was placing my $30k+ in livestock in jeopardy. That is when I decided to part ways with their products.

I’ll admit they make some very nice products for the price point. Being a mechanical engineer, I’m well aware of the development and manufacturing costs that go into such products. I honestly believe their products could be much more reliable with a little more upfront testing. However, they wanted absolutely nothing to do with working through the issues with me. Now the only enjoyment I get from my Apex items is selling them off a couple grand at a time.

Sounds like a bad experience. That sucks. But, expecting to hear back personally from the owner of a company is a ridiculous expectation.

 

[hmbrower]

So essentially.... What would I need from GHL to be able to get the same thing as the APEX and the trident?

 

[Potatohead]

So essentially.... What would I need from GHL to be able to get the same thing as the APEX and the trident?

A Profilux 4, an Ion Director, and a slave doser 2.1... and that also gets you nitrate testing and what looks to be probably phosphate, the last one is still to be determined. In fact if you just want the “trident” features and not all the programmability and monitoring you don’t even need the Profilux, just a stand-alone 2.1 + ID.

 

[WWIII]

So essentially.... What would I need from GHL to be able to get the same thing as the APEX and the trident?

profilux, kh director and a balanced 2 part, or calcium reactor, and/or waterchanges.

Seriously though, depends on what you want. If you're saying you want a controller and then be able to measure alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium, then you need a profilux, kh director, and then the ion director this fall. That will give you similar capabilities and hopefully add no3 as well as po4 to the automatic testing part.

 

[Andreww65]

I have a real easy answer. Hire a service when you travel. My guy charges me $30 a day. He is a fellow reefer friend and he knows it all. I do have everything labeled and a binder with all the info on my he tank, fish and gear. I ditched Apex years ago. I found I spent too much time and frustration with the controllers. KISS. Keep it simple stupid. My mantra. Not for all though.

 

[Andreww65]

I have a real easy answer. Hire a service when you travel. My guy charges me $30 a day. He is a fellow reefer friend and he knows it all. I do have everything labeled and a binder with all the info on my he tank, fish and gear. I ditched Apex years ago. I found I spent too much time and frustration with the controllers. KISS. Keep it simple stupid. My mantra. Not for all though.

 

[vangvace]

I'm a noob and am finally going to set up a serious reef.
I was looking at a new apex system for a build Im preparing. I figured in a budget of 2k. And I don't have a lot of money, so this will have to cut out some serious livestock from my list. Maybe a fowlr without the fish lol.
I was trying to convince myself a solid platform is priority.
After reading 1 page here, I'm going to do more research. I know nothing about GHL. I'm glad there's another controller available. Monopolys can be very dangerous. Not for the company, for the consumer.

In another post you mention that you have an Apex Gold already. In my personal opinion, use it instead of looking at the upgrade (tech) bug. All of the autotesting systems are really new so give the market time to settle and mature (Again imo). I have a Gold, but tbh I use it for trends more than actual numbers and turning off pumps for feeding /waterchanges.

So essentially.... What would I need from GHL to be able to get the same thing as the APEX and the trident?

I believe the P4 Mega set with KH director and slave doser kit is the GHL equivalent, but also doesn't test for Cal or Mg.

 

[cmcoker]

A Profilux 4, an Ion Director, and a slave doser 2.1... and that also gets you nitrate testing and what looks to be probably phosphate, the last one is still to be determined. In fact if you just want the “trident” features and not all the programmability and monitoring you don’t even need the Profilux, just a stand-alone 2.1 + ID.

Alkalinity is being incorporated into the ion director? I thought it would still be the separate, kh director.. but I havent kept up on the ion director thread(s)

 

[Potatohead]

Alkalinity is being incorporated into the ion director? I thought it would still be the separate, kh director.. but I havent kept up on the ion director thread(s)

Yes

 

[Kyl]

Alkalinity is being incorporated into the ion director? I thought it would still be the separate, kh director.. but I havent kept up on the ion director thread(s)

KH director = alk only. Alkalinity will require a reagent based testing method for the foreseeable future.
Forthcoming Ion Director = Ca / Mg / No3 at this point, most likely at least one other element or parameter at release. It will not test alkalinity, KHD is for that.

 

[road_runner]

In another post you mention that you have an Apex Gold already. In my personal opinion, use it instead of looking at the upgrade (tech) bug. All of the autotesting systems are really new so give the market time to settle and mature (Again imo). I have a Gold, but tbh I use it for trends more than actual numbers and turning off pumps for feeding /waterchanges.



I believe the P4 Mega set with KH director and slave doser kit is the GHL equivalent, but also doesn't test for Cal or Mg.

"have a Gold, but tbh I use it for trends more than actual numbers and turning off pumps for feeding /waterchange"

This statment right there what made me switch.
I had all apex modules...all. except trident.
I also used to say I use my apex reading only for trend not for absolute reading.
Then one day I realized how absurd this statement was when I saw how stable and reliable ghl probs reading were. I kind of woke up and said enough and moved to something I am describing now as more reliable... i also realized that because I did not trust the reading 100% I used to check fusion very often, when you use something for trend. You need to check often and rely on your own to decide if a trend is good or bad.
Nothing against you btw, this is very common among users...the line "use it for trend only, or use it for event trigger" are so common...

Food for thoughts..

 

[Potatohead]

Wow ok I stand corrected, I was under the impression the ID would do alkalinity as well. I was even following all the ID threads lol.

 

[vangvace]

Wow ok I stand corrected, I was under the impression the ID would do alkalinity as well. I was even following all the ID threads lol.

The final KHD and ID changes and info will come out at or closer to MACNA.

 

[HawaiianReef]

Are you kidding????? this has been discussed for at least a year - and I guarantee you that @Paul Sands did not initiate it..... Note - I think Neptunes design that you need to do 4 alk tests and x ca and x mg tests per day is ridiculous. Note I think their comment that its .09 cents per test is stupid - as you could to them a lot more often and say we're doing 100 (UNNECESSARY) tests per day - so its .0001 /test.... The reality is - that for this device to work - you need to do the minimum tests. And if you dont like it - buy another system. @Terence has mentioned several times - why it makes sense - for his device...... But - for this device it does...

Im out of the loop.
I never considered the Trident so I never looked into it. At least not until now.
I gave Paul credit because this thread is the first one that I've read about these issues. So he is the first one I've heard mention this.

 

[Chiefmaster30]

Following along! Not sure if I’ll ever get one of either but if I do definitely got me looking at the ghl models.

 

[turfster26]

There are and most of them are using the older hardware.

I’d happily replace my newer Apex with GHL, but I can’t find it. BRS doesn’t carry it. Marinedepot is always out when I check. I’ve not seen them anywhere else, probably because Neptune likely negotiates “exclusives” with anyone carrying their stuff so that those companies can’t carry the competition too.

Don't know if this has already been posted. But I buy ALL my GHL gear directly from the source and fast shipping and turnaround when ordering: https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/store/

If you're patient and wait for MAGNA and RAP type events you can save 10-15% on all their devices.

 

[BZOFIQ]

...

I'm saying that I just do not see it has a primary reason to develop the Trident because they want revenue. If that really was the case, that they wanted a source of revenue, then as I and someone else said we would all be paying for Fusion access...

That is going to come, give it time for Neptune to ease into it.

 

[BZOFIQ]

...

If you're patient and wait for MAGNA and RAP type events you can save 10-15% on all their devices.

Which is around the corner for New York and surrounding area. A big resounding YES!

 

[road_runner]

There are and most of them are using the older hardware.

I’d happily replace my newer Apex with GHL, but I can’t find it. BRS doesn’t carry it. Marinedepot is always out when I check. I’ve not seen them anywhere else, probably because Neptune likely negotiates “exclusives” with anyone carrying their stuff so that those companies can’t carry the competition too.

Ghl have a solid distributor in USA. Their HQ is in Florida.

https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/

Just because they are not on brs do not mean they are not available.

 

[BZOFIQ]

Ghl have a solid distributor in USA. Their HQ is in Florida.

https://www.aquariumcomputer.com/usa/

Just because they are not on brs do not mean they are not available.

GHL USA is now in Wilmington, NC

Their HQ just moved to NC per post at link below and is no longer in Florida.

GHL at Reefapalooza NY 2019

 

[MnFish1]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Well - It sounds like he's fed up with Neptune - not Apex. Many people call Neptune - Apex.