Fed up with Apex

[road_runner]

Because there are people that do test more than that judging by the demand of the Trident and looking at the frequency of how others are using other products testing similarly. Just because you or I don't test that frequently there are those that do.

Furthermore the horse is tired from its flogging about the consistent revenue stream of overpriced consumables. They are not overpriced and when directly compared to the same tests done A: Manually and B: By similar automated testing units trident was within margin.

Lastly - review the video in which they discuss why there is a minimum test requirement. It has to do with how the system works. While not directly apples to apples it would by similar to why you have to replace a refrigerator water filter, oil change, oil filter, or an IV in a patient.

Based on what you are saying the product isn't for you. No harm, no foul. However, the foul is when you continue to say the regents are a revenue stream or a money grab without knowing how the bloody system works and why there is a set test limit. That isn't a fan boy or fan girl that is just saying you are speaking out of ignorance with regards to how the product works. I will say I fell into that trap and have since moved on.

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula:))
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

 

[HawaiianReef]

Whatever. I’ve never had a tank that needed calcium or magnesium tested twice a day or even daily for that matter. What’s the point of making it so that the user can’t change these to whatever they desire other than the company wants a consistent revenue stream from overpriced consumables.

Edit: Wow! The reagents are $50/month at the lowest setting. So it costs almost as much to run it for one single year as it does to just purchase it.

Thanks for bringing up this issue.
I have an apex classic, but I never set it up yet. Got it used for a build Im doing. I began to consider the Trident, so I started looking into the 2016 apex new.
I had no idea Neptune programmed the Trident so the user Can't decide how many tests are done per day. That is a HUGE insight on the business practices of the company in my opinion.
I guess more GHL research.
Thanks again Paul

 

[HawaiianReef]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula:))
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

Exactly. But...
but locking the consumer out of deciding if they would like to test less often. Once a day, every other day, every six months, that should be programmable on the user's end.

 

[MnFish1]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula:))
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

it is clearly a revenue stream - it may not be a 'profit stream' but... its certainly a revenue stream

 

[MnFish1]

Thanks for bringing up this issue.
I have an apex classic, but I never set it up yet. Got it used for a build Im doing. I began to consider the Trident, so I started looking into the 2016 apex new.
I had no idea Neptune programmed the Trident so the user Can't decide how many tests are done per day. That is a HUGE insight on the business practices of the company in my opinion.
I guess more GHL research.
Thanks again Paul

Are you kidding????? this has been discussed for at least a year - and I guarantee you that @Paul Sands did not initiate it..... Note - I think Neptunes design that you need to do 4 alk tests and x ca and x mg tests per day is ridiculous. Note I think their comment that its .09 cents per test is stupid - as you could to them a lot more often and say we're doing 100 (UNNECESSARY) tests per day - so its .0001 /test.... The reality is - that for this device to work - you need to do the minimum tests. And if you dont like it - buy another system. @Terence has mentioned several times - why it makes sense - for his device...... But - for this device it does...

 

[Potatohead]

Don't forget you have to send it in every 18 months for service. They may bring up a program where they send you a pre-serviced one and you send in your old one for the next guy, but I don't know if that has been determined. I also don't know if the cost of this servicing has been announced yet or not, but even the fact you have to do it at all was not mentioned until the product released.

 

[User1]

Not to say there is anything wrong with making money out of the reagent, but come on.. are you really saying the reagent is not a revenue stream? Is your argument is:
"they sell you the reagent for your own good"?
If that's the case i will look forward to when they release a DIY reagent formula:))
For the record I believe Nothing wrong with making money, it's a business after all. But

Yes, I am saying that selling regents is not a revenue stream. Or at least that isn't their play. I'm not speaking for them nor am I an employee. It is just my opinion. Their money is made by selling units of both trident and controller and other accessories that make up the ecosystem. Furthermore, I am also saying that there is no hidden agenda based on the required number of tests per day or associated limits of said tests (which is a complaint several here have stated because it is set to a specific number and if so allowed to lower it would prolong the regent content).

I'm saying that I just do not see it has a primary reason to develop the Trident because they want revenue. If that really was the case, that they wanted a source of revenue, then as I and someone else said we would all be paying for Fusion access. Since we are not being charged for Fusion access I can only surmise that there is no said revenue stream requirement, push, rush, or whatever else we want to assume. Assume, opinion, etc. Right? I believe Fusion is hosted in AWS. AWS isn't cheap especially when you start throwing load balance, persistent storage, snap shots, and other things into the mix. So again we are not paying for portal access is just another point why I think that. People do pay for portals or content (my comment about ESPN, CBS OnLine access, NASCAR, etc) - we do not. There is no other connection than to say revenue is not the reason. Period. Now, I'm not foolish enough to say they are not making money off them, but it isn't their motivation.

They will make their money has information starts to flow about how it does or does not work. How it trends. How much precision there is or how accurate it can be. This will lead to new controllers being sold, more tridents, conversion of controllers, and other products sold that make up the ecosystem.

TLDR - no, not for our own good. DIY - someone did mention that elsewhere. No - I don't think it is a revenue stream but I very well could be wrong. Shall I buy the first round of beverages?

 

[road_runner]

Well, i believe selling reagent is 100% revenue stream and 100% have profit angle otherwise no P&L would do it and bare the hardship if building it, dealing with customers, guanratnee its quality...etc.
So we will agree to disagree...

 

[User1]

Don't forget you have to send it in every 18 months for service. They may bring up a program where they send you a pre-serviced one and you send in your old one for the next guy, but I don't know if that has been determined. I also don't know if the cost of this servicing has been announced yet or not, but even the fact you have to do it at all was not mentioned until the product released.

I believe it was said optional but recommended. May also be able to do it yourself via kit. I know this was a hot topic in another thread so I'm guessing we could both search to see specifics.

 

[User1]

Well, i believe selling reagent is 100% revenue stream and 100% have profit angle otherwise no P&L would do it and bare the hardship if building it, dealing with customers, guanratnee its quality...etc.
So we will agree to disagree...

No problem. I think we are both good.

 

[MnFish1]

Selling anything is a revenue stream... They are not a charity - more power to them.... I takes a certain kind of person - to think they are just seeing tridents without any reference to the solutions. No offense @saf1 but - IMHO you might. be incorrect...... If you are correct Neptune is not marketing their products correctly... I.E - selling the 'blades' in addition to the 'razor' is common - for them not to have accounted for that seems odd - were I to believe your idea..

 

[User1]

That's for 2 months.

Correct - regents "should" last or are estimated to last 2 months at the lowest setting.

https://www.neptunesystems.com/products/expansion-modules/trident/

Specifically: Reagent comes in 2-month kits (based on the default testing schedule of 4-Alk/2-Ca/2-Mg per day).

 

[User1]

Selling anything is a revenue stream... They are not a charity - more power to them.... I takes a certain kind of person - to think they are just seeing tridents without any reference to the solutions. No offense @saf1 but - IMHO you might. be incorrect...... If you are correct Neptune is not marketing their products correctly... I.E - selling the 'blades' in addition to the 'razor' is common - for them not to have accounted for that seems odd - were I to believe your idea..

Np - I could be completely out in left field. Razor blades are a great example so I hear and dig it.

 

[road_runner]

I believe it was said optional but recommended. May also be able to do it yourself via kit. I know this was a hot topic in another thread so I'm guessing we could both search to see specifics.

Btw let me bug you bit more.
Selling kits, maintenance fees are also 100% revenue streams and 100% have profit angle...
This is true in any buissness in the world...;)

 

[User1]

Btw let me bug you bit more.
Selling kits, maintenance fees are also 100% revenue streams and 100% have profit angle...
This is true in any buissness in the world...;)

You are not bugging me. And yes, kits, maintenance, completely agree.

 

[chefjpaul]

Trident!


aaaannd go...

Hahahahaaaaaaa...look what you did... clever.

 

[WWIII]

Hahahahaaaaaaa...look what you did... clever.

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

 

[User1]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

"T" trident
"T" torpedoed also worked :)

But to be fair - I think the OP has already decided to switch so now we can all move along and let them post in the GHL sub forums to come up to speed. Also some of you provided some good information based on your use. So I believe they are in good hands.

 

[JoshH]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Sounds like a blurb for a T-Shirt...

"Don't mention the T word..;Rage;Rage;Rage"

 

[chefjpaul]

It had already crossed the event horizon and started down that big black hole. lol

Poor OP never even mentioned the T word. This thread, like many others has been tridented. Definitely a hot button topic any time Apex is mentioned so we shouldn't be surprised I guess.

Seriously.... very funny though!
So much discussion on a piece of equipment that was only a pipe dream a few years ago, we should be fortunate these companies even exist to R&D this stuff and then produce it. Glad I am not on that train anymore.