Fed up with Apex

[User1]

Whatever. I’ve never had a tank that needed calcium or magnesium tested twice a day or even daily for that matter. What’s the point of making it so that the user can’t change these to whatever they desire other than the company wants a consistent revenue stream from overpriced consumables.

Because there are people that do test more than that judging by the demand of the Trident and looking at the frequency of how others are using other products testing similarly. Just because you or I don't test that frequently there are those that do.

Furthermore the horse is tired from its flogging about the consistent revenue stream of overpriced consumables. They are not overpriced and when directly compared to the same tests done A: Manually and B: By similar automated testing units trident was within margin.

Lastly - review the video in which they discuss why there is a minimum test requirement. It has to do with how the system works. While not directly apples to apples it would by similar to why you have to replace a refrigerator water filter, oil change, oil filter, or an IV in a patient.

Based on what you are saying the product isn't for you. No harm, no foul. However, the foul is when you continue to say the regents are a revenue stream or a money grab without knowing how the bloody system works and why there is a set test limit. That isn't a fan boy or fan girl that is just saying you are speaking out of ignorance with regards to how the product works. I will say I fell into that trap and have since moved on.

 

[eschulist]

Edit: Wow! The reagents are $50/month at the lowest setting. So it costs almost as much to run it for one single year as it does to just purchase it.

The fact that you have to test alk 8 times a day with the trident and can’t reduce that any further makes it seem like that’s the point.

Good for them that they put themselves in that position and have enough money to hire brand image consultants that troll the boards and defend the company.

You say Alk is tested 8 times a day at minimum, which is false. You say $50 a month, but it’s 44.95 for a 2 month kit to test all 3 (.09 cents per test and is the cheapest compared to anything available), and you claim Neptune pays people to be forum brand promoters. The amount of misinformation that comes out of you is ridiculous.

 

[Entz]

Yeah I was pretty negative towards them at the start but it looks like something in the reagents (likely the Alk) is required flush out things and keep the internals clean. I wish they could do less but that isn't a big issue for me (other than shipping but that isn't their fault)

If Neptune was really that evil (EA levels) and was going all revenue happy we would be charged for fusion with multiple tiers. View only = 9.99 , control your device through fusion 14.99/mo. Limit one head unit unless you get the family pack!

 

[User1]

If Neptune was really that evil (EA levels) and was going all revenue happy we would be charged for fusion with multiple tiers.

Very true. Every time the regent cost or revenue stream is mentioned I've tossed this out there. If it was only about money we would be paying for Fusion access and we are not. I even remind them that back in 2000 Neptune used to charge $100.00 for their reef notes product to see the logged information.

It seems we are a society today that likes to look at the negative rather than listening and looking for the good. I could be wrong of course, and usually am, but that is at least how I see it.

 

[BZOFIQ]

They are not overpriced and when directly compared to the same tests done A: Manually and B: By similar automated testing units trident was within margin.

That's hog wash! Even with comparable pricing per test vs manual test kits nobody is testing this many times a day therefore the cost is not the same.

And no, similar automated testing units weren't within margin.....in the video presented by Mark Callahan the competition's cost was miscalculated - do read comments.

 

[Snookin]

You say Alk is tested 8 times a day at minimum, which is false. You say $50 a month, but it’s 44.95 for a 2 month kit to test all 3 (.09 cents per test and is the cheapest compared to anything available), and you claim Neptune pays people to be forum brand promoters. The amount of misinformation that comes out of you is ridiculous.

100% agree about this poster. Either extremely misinformed and uneducated in matters he posts about or just spreading misinformation to be a troll. Either way, I had to ignore. This type of person is what hurts public forums like R2R from being credible sources of information.

 

[User1]

That's hog wash! Even with comparable pricing per test vs manual test kits nobody is testing this many times a day therefore the cost is not the same.

And no, similar automated testing units weren't within margin.....in the video presented by Mark Callahan the competition's cost was miscalculated - do read comments.

Well...I've not washed any hogs today let along own any. Although I do own a German Shepherd Dog and I will be giving her a bath today.

I do read the comments. I do believe the estimated cost is $0.09 per test. At least based on some simple comments here and in other threads. Maybe I'm out in left filed

 

[Paul Sands]

You say Alk is tested 8 times a day at minimum, which is false. You say $50 a month, but it’s 44.95 for a 2 month kit to test all 3 (.09 cents per test and is the cheapest compared to anything available), and you claim Neptune pays people to be forum brand promoters. The amount of misinformation that comes out of you is ridiculous.

The website I saw said the tests were a one month supply. When you click over the neptunes website, it says it’s a two month supply. I don’t know what’s right. Apparently you have to order these through Neptune’s website so I’ll take your word that it’s two months. Would you like me to correct my post?

Most companies in the Bay Area have people dedicated to social media and forums. That’s hardly news.

 

[bluprntguy]

Yeah I was pretty negative towards them at the start but it looks like something in the reagents (likely the Alk) is required flush out things and keep the internals clean. I wish they could do less but that isn't a big issue for me (other than shipping but that isn't their fault)

If Neptune was really that evil (EA levels) and was going all revenue happy we would be charged for fusion with multiple tiers. View only = 9.99 , control your device through fusion 14.99/mo. Limit one head unit unless you get the family pack!

I can't imagine that they could pull off charging for access to fusion in 2019, but apparently they tried in the past. Other companies have similar online access and they don't charge hobbyists.

I also have a hard time believing that they couldn't design a system that didn't need to be flushed out constantly with reagents if they really wanted. Assuming it really is 9 cents/test, that's about what a standard API test would run if you bought it at your LFS and that's after being marked up 50% and including all the packaging. I assume the trident refills come shipped with no frills packaging and they are skipping any markup from vendors. I just can't see how this isn't making revenue/profit for Neptune. That's neither good nor bad, it's just an obvious fact.

I don't necessarily think Neptune is Evil. They are a business and are looking out for their profits.

I don't currently have a controller on my tank, but I'm considering it and leaning heavily toward GHL.

 

[User1]

I can't imagine that they could pull off charging for access to fusion in 2019, but apparently they tried in the past. Other companies have similar online access and they don't charge hobbyists.

Access? Ever hear of ESPN? How about CBS? Pandora? Nascar? List goes on of people charging for online content. WoW? Playstation? Xbox? List goes on. I personally can not say if Neptune ever tried to charge for Fusion but I do remember in 2000 that they charged 100 dollars for reef notes. Not the same - it was more information to what they did in the past and if they wanted a revenue stream there are ways to get it without the regents.

I also have a hard time believing that they couldn't design a system that didn't need to be flushed out constantly with reagents if they really wanted. Assuming it really is 9 cents/test, that's about what a standard API test would run if you bought it at your LFS and that's after being marked up 50% and including all the packaging. I assume the trident refills come shipped with no frills packaging and they are skipping any markup from vendors. I just can't see how this isn't making revenue/profit for Neptune. That's neither good nor bad, it's just an obvious fact.

I'm not employed by Neptune nor am I on their engineering team so I do not know how it is designed let alone engineered or why they did it the way they did. I get paid to break fortune 500 companies eCommerce sites or test designs by their engineers and sometimes decisions make me go hmm... Be that has it may we are talking about chemistry and tests that need consistent results. So along the way the hardware has to have a lot of known states in order to do this. I mean me being ignorant of Neptune's design I can take a step back and unbiased say it was their best option for their product road map.

Assuming it is $0.09 per test let me ask you a bigger question. How much is your time worth? Assuming this isn't for you or I because we do not test multiple times a day but if we did then how long does it take you to run a battery of tests? Do that one time maybe it is no big deal. Doing that four times a day now we start to get into dollars per day, per week, per month, and so on. All of a sudden that $0.09 isn't looking so bad after all...

I don't think most companies are evil and if this company isn't doing it for you then sure, go with another. I'm sure you will be happy with that decision and I'd personally wish you nothing but success. Really.

 

[Darrell Brady]

boy this thread has gone a 180.

 

[Paul Sands]

boy this thread has gone a 180.

Seriously. Apparently the Neptune fusion website that tracks your aquarium data is now an equivalent value to paid subscriptions like ESPN, CBS and Pandora. Who knew!

 

[vetteguy53081]

My best experience with Neptune has been their customer service. Havent had a negative one yet

 

[roberthu526]

My best experience with Neptune has been their customer service. Havent had a negative one yet

Did you try to talk to them or just went by email? I honestly didn’t know I was not allowed to call without an appointment.

 

[WWIII]

Trident!


aaaannd go...

 

[laverda]

First - it is HPE, not HP. That died years ago
Second - Neptune is not splitting their companies (e.g. software / fusion web division to company X, and hardware to company Y, etc)

Not sure what the point of HP was but Neptune != HPE on many fronts.

I suspect the point was in relation to HP printers and how they use the consumables as a cash cow to milk the consumers. The fact that you have to test alk 8 times a day with the trident and can’t reduce that any further makes it seem like that’s the point.

That is exactly what I was referring to. That and the 18 months $150 services make the cost of ownership crazy in my opinion. I believe I read that a 3 month supply of reagents is $45.00 if you run the minimum number of tests daily. If so that makes the minimum annual cost for reagents and services $255.00 plus shipping and taxes, so $300 a year. That is not including the original purchase price for a plastic toy. No Thank You! What am I supposed to do when it is sent in for servicing? Considering my experience with dosing using my classic apex, I would not trust it to control my ALK.

 

[RobW]

Reefbot? Lol

 

[Silver14SS]

That is exactly what I was referring to. That and the 18 months $150 services make the cost of ownership crazy in my opinion. I believe I read that a 3 month supply of reagents is $45.00 if you run the minimum number of tests daily. If so that makes the minimum annual cost for reagents and services $255.00 plus shipping and taxes, so $300 a year. That is not including the original purchase price for a plastic toy. No Thank You! What am I supposed to do when it is sent in for servicing? Considering my experience with dosing using my classic apex, I would not trust it to control my ALK.

There are options for Alk testing that have a lower cost of operation and are user serviceable. If you can live without Ca and Mag testing, I think there are 3 Alk testers that aren't reliant upon a controller to operate.

Is there a complete manual for Trident? All I see on Neptune's site is the quick start guide. Seems like communication from them or authorized resellers would clear up a lot of the confusion and bickering.

 

[tdlawdo]

Trident!


aaaannd go...

Haha!! Classic!

 

[tdlawdo]

Access? Ever hear of ESPN? How about CBS? Pandora? Nascar? List goes on of people charging for online content. WoW? Playstation? Xbox? List goes on. I personally can not say if Neptune ever tried to charge for Fusion but I do remember in 2000 that they charged 100 dollars for reef notes. Not the same - it was more information to what they did in the past and if they wanted a revenue stream there are ways to get it without the regents.



I'm not employed by Neptune nor am I on their engineering team so I do not know how it is designed let alone engineered or why they did it the way they did. I get paid to break fortune 500 companies eCommerce sites or test designs by their engineers and sometimes decisions make me go hmm... Be that has it may we are talking about chemistry and tests that need consistent results. So along the way the hardware has to have a lot of known states in order to do this. I mean me being ignorant of Neptune's design I can take a step back and unbiased say it was their best option for their product road map.

Assuming it is $0.09 per test let me ask you a bigger question. How much is your time worth? Assuming this isn't for you or I because we do not test multiple times a day but if we did then how long does it take you to run a battery of tests? Do that one time maybe it is no big deal. Doing that four times a day now we start to get into dollars per day, per week, per month, and so on. All of a sudden that $0.09 isn't looking so bad after all...

I don't think most companies are evil and if this company isn't doing it for you then sure, go with another. I'm sure you will be happy with that decision and I'd personally wish you nothing but success. Really.

What’s wrong with you speaking so eloquently and level headed on a public site? Haha.. thanks for the level headed logic and opinion.