Feeling sorry for Kessil after the latest BRS series

[Jase4224]

Eh... I'd take ANYTHING from BRS with a grain of salt these days. They are in the business of selling products under their corporate umbrella. Kessil prolly isn't playing nice anymore with the walmart/amazon of the aquarium industry. Got a link to this 'video'?

Except the SKY didn’t get any attention, doesn’t pass the spectrum test. This BRS video was following evidence. I get where your coming from though.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

You don’t need 5 Blades over a 24” tank. That would be total overkill and you would run them at like 15-20% tops. 3 over a 24” tank gives SPS PAR everywhere in the tank.

When Ryan talked about 5 Blades over a 24” tank, he specifically mentioned running them with the included tank rests and being as low profile, clean as you could be. When they’re that close to the water, tough to get spread without adding extra fixtures and running them all low percentage wise.

I have 3 over a 36” wide tank (along with 2 XHO) and can keep a mixed reef all day without the XHOs. I kept the XHOs on because I have them. I’ll eventually switch them for Blades. The Blades are so much better it’s not even worth looking at the XHOs at this point IMO.

The whole “full spectrum” card is overplayed at this point IMO. My tank hasn’t skipped a beat since leaving halides. I’d actually say it has improved with much better polyp extension and my Alk/calcium consumption increasing. I was also able to get 50% more PAR with about 1/2 the wattage.

Wait….. you mean to tell me you ditched halides? What got you to come to the dark side? I used to think you had a halide to the day I die tattoo haha

edit I also understood it a bit different. They touted that a major benefit of blades was that you could have them at one inch or fourteen inches above the tank and still be within a very tight margin of par regardless. Making that a major selling point, they are idiot proof. Also for an sps dom tank I understood five to be optimal according to their data although I could be wrong as I often am but I didn’t think mounting height has much, if any impact on par according to them.

 

[happyhourhero]

I’m not defending BRS or anything but. They do experiments on all the lighting and provide reasons with results from the tests they put the products through… I can’t see how any of the videos that they create are solely based off making profit by just saying lies all day so you can buy their stuff… I think that’s a false statement to say they’re only there for profit…. Yes there a business….yess they want to make a profit…but to go as far as to imply they are lying about products just to sell them is a stretch….sounds like a bunch of kessil fan boys got there feelings hurt a lil bit lol hahah

I’ve never run Kessil products. Glad you like Aperture Pet & Life’s content tho. As mentioned, I personally just don’t watch much these days.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Well I haven't read the thread you started yesterday, yet, but at 7 pages in a day I'm going out on a limb to say you spawned at least some heated convo with your blasphemous post regarding BRS.
Maybe I'll read it after dinner. Happy St. Patricks Day!

Ha…yeah not exactly what I was going for but I should know better than to mention any vendor, manufacture, product, test method, etc without a little blowback
Happy St Pats to you too! Have an Irish car bomb for me!

 

[oreo54]

They touted that a major benefit of blades was that you could have them at one inch or fourteen inches above the tank and still be within a very tight margin of par regardless. Making that a major selling point, they are idiot proof.

Don't think that is right
Point was you get even spread and less of a hot spot.
Par considerations are secondary .

5 ai blades.

 

[A_Blind_Reefer]

Don't think that is right
Point was you get even spread and less of a hot spot.
Par considerations are secondary .

5 ai blades.

True, but taking my comment out of context. I was responding to the comment that only three blades were needed for sps dom based off of the data and that five were only needed if you were to install them flush with the rim of the tank just off the water run at lower power for coverage. The data I saw for three blades showed a total average coverage for a 24 sps dom at zero percent. Five were shown having a coverage at 100 percent for a 24 sps dom. So my comment was in response to that point and referencing the flexibility in mounting height. But yes you are correct that par would be secondary to full coverage with little hot spot. I could/should have worded it differently if I knew I was to be graded.

 

[Nikolai_VN]

I surely respect to other Kessil users, but i personally wonder that a 7xx+ light cant do better than a regular G4 Radion, dont even compare to G5-6 or hydra HD.
Yes, they have better shimmers, but the cost is so much disco effect, you have to mix it with T5.
I just dont know why it so expensive compared to other brand. I would buy it if it cheaper.

 

[Pntbll687]

I’m still using 360we with my t5 hybrid over my 180. Grows whatever I want.

I stopped listening to brs when the blade was dubbed “cheapest” in the new test. Shocking, the brand new light that is from the same family of companies is somehow the winner

i think the new lighting series just rehashed the last 5yrs of lighting. Here’s an easier breakdown
1) small form factory lights (kessil, redsea) need supplemental light to help with shadows and overall par and spread
2) medium size lights xr30, hydra64, can get good spread and coverage of mounted high enough
3) large panel lights (sky, ati straton) do very well on their own
4) multiple bars led lights work very well, just like t5

my take away
- blanket the tank in light, reduce hot spots as much as possible

this has been said for years now. I feel like the the horse died, and brs just dug it up to beat it again, all because AI is late to the party with a bar style light

 

[Pntbll687]

I surely respect to other Kessil users, but i personally wonder that a 7xx+ light cant do better than a regular G4 Radion, dont even compare to G5-6 or hydra HD.
Yes, they have better shimmers, but the cost is so much disco effect, you have to mix it with T5.
I just dont know why it so expensive compared to other brand. I would buy it if it cheaper.

I think the smaller lights are priced a little high, but the ap9x is priced equal to others.

I’m still running the AP700 on my frag tank. A single fixture covers a 4x2 area no problem.

 

[Harpo]

I deal with data all day long and I can manipulate that data as I see fit. Seems like there is a large risk of interpreting the data to serve management purposes. I would love our lighting experts to review the raw data and share their opinions.

 

[Bpb]

Took me a while to get around to watching it. I don’t think it was a knock on kessils. Ryan’s final light recommendation was actually kessils and blades. A direct recommendation is far from condemnation.

The correct interpretation would be it is condemnation of inappropriate expectations and usage of single point source lighting options such as kessil.

I have been preaching the content of this video on my little soap box for years. Go back and search my posts. Wide Spread from a single point is not “coverage”. Many individual light sources providing primary beam coming from end to end is real coverage. It is ideal for the photoreceptor cells in your coral to look up and have a direct line of sight to a light sources primary beam. That is coverage.

The blade is a great product. I don’t blame them for promoting it. It is well designed and addresses many issues people face with supplemental lighting options (cost and spread).

I have been basically using the “sun and sky” lighting method for the past couple years. 150 gallon with 3 kessil a360x and 2 reef breeders panels. They’re mounted 12” off the tank, and I use the aquatic life kessil mounting plates that fit perfectly onto the reef breeders.

The kessils are the “sun” tuned to 100% color at the whitest setting. 70% intensity overall, with red also at 70%, but I crank the green and violet channels all the way up.

The reef breeders act as blue fill light, but I actually have the 420, 480, and 520 nm channels cranked up much higher than the 450nm channels. White and red are turned off entirely. Par is very flat and even, there is apparent visual shade and hard shimmer, but that is primarily because the kessils are so white. If I turn those off the reef breeders being that they cover the tank footprint and are mounted so high, blend very well and fill in all the areas the kessils miss. It works wonderfully. Par is in the high 400’s all over the rocks and in the 100-200 area on the sand. I can easily hit 1000 par on the rocks if I decided to load up on clams and anemones, which I won’t.

Reducing shading has always been easy, it has just been a shame so many years went by without it being heavily marketed. T5’s did it fine. Leds have always been able to do it fine if you can think and purchase rationally, and ignore the silly recommendation that a light source the size of a no. 2 pencil eraser could actually cover a 24”x24” area effectively.

Managed expectations. No bad lights. Just bad application. Just as @Dana Riddle always says

 

[areefer01]

Ignore for a minute the current video being debated or arguing over but don't forget:

• a360x launched sometime in 2018(?)
• 90w
• Array not a panel
• BRS lighting tests have been evolving over the years
• BRS provided multiple videos on the a360x including spread, mounting, and more after launch and subsequent follow-ups
• BRS liked it due to the form factor, mounting height options, and spread

Honestly I'm not sure what the fuss is about here. There is nothing to feel sorry for as it relates to Kessil lights nor did BRS do them wrong. Kessil lighting is another tool for hobbyist to choose from. They are reliable. They have great customer service. They have flexibility in mounting height and spread with lens adaptors. And more.

Times change, lighting evolves, new brands come out, and the wheel turns. I think everyone needs to take a page out of Frankies book and Relax.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

I didn't read through all this, but I did see that BS video from BRS. Ryan has sold out and talks out of both sides of his mouth. He used to praise Kessil as being the best LED on the market and said they have no equal when paired with T5s.

Now, he's dumping on Kessil? If I had to guess, they tried to buy Kessil out and either couldn't afford to or couldn't strong-arm them into a deal that benefitted BRS.

He's a straight up liar on the Kessil A500X. They just said that puts out something like 160 par at 100%? Oh yeah? They had another video a year ago that showed it put out a lot more than that.

I owned one of the first A500X to hit the consumer market. I did extensive testing on it and I can tell you that fixture will do at least 450 to 500 PAR.

I just posed on another BS video of his saying he found the "SECRET" to LED and lighting in general. Oh my God.... Get this, he says "the sun is really white and the reason the sky is blue is because the atmosphere filters the sun rays!".

What an idiot. Newsflash, they taught is that in the 3rd or 4th grade!!!! I can't watch any more of those stupid videos. So full of misinformation.

 

[areefer01]

Now, he's dumping on Kessil? If I had to guess, they tried to buy Kessil out and either couldn't afford to or couldn't strong-arm them into a deal that benefitted BRS.

Maybe you are not aware but Kessil is a business division of DiCon. I don't think I would speculate but feel free to do as you wish.

What an idiot.

I'm not sure that is necessary.

 

[Hurricane Aquatics]

Maybe you are not aware but Kessil is a business division of DiCon. I don't think I would speculate but feel free to do as you wish.



I'm not sure that is necessary.

I'm well aware. That doesn't mean they can't sell off a portion of their business that may not be their main source of profit.
I understand business better than most as I've negotiated acquisitions and mergers for the last 20 years of my career. Not small ones either.

Regardless, I don't like seeing people try to take advantage of unknowing customers. Yes, businesses do it all the time, but I'm not sure they change and start bashing products because they can't negotiate in the future. It makes them look like amateurs. Which they are in the business world.

 

[areefer01]

I'm well aware. That doesn't mean they can't sell off a portion of their business that may not be their main source of profit.
I understand business better than most as I've negotiated acquisitions and mergers for the last 20 years of my career. Not small ones either.

Of course there are plenty of possibilities but unless that is your line of work, well, I'd leave it alone. If that is your line of work then great.

Regardless, I don't like seeing people try to take advantage of unknowing customers. Yes, businesses do it all the time, but I'm not sure they change and start bashing products because they can't negotiate in the future. It makes them look like amateurs. Which they are in the business world.

It was just an observation. I'd wager there are far worse examples of taking advantage of hobbyist but we can disagree.

 

[Cichlid Dad]

I believe the take away is this. T5 and mh were the best lighting for growth and lack of shadow. T5 is on it's way out as far as being able to get bulbs. Mh is to darn hot. He was showing that this kind of blanket light is not being produced by modern led. But we can come close with the examples he gave. Yes he is pushing blade and if you look at those lights, they do mimic t5 to a point. Also most led lights don't give the spectrum the coral needs. He showed you what combo's did come close to t5. Yes I'm a t5 fan boy and am not looking forward to the day I have to switch

 

[Amphibious Wallet]

I like the BRS videos on lighting. Tells me what I've already known for 2 decades with stage lighting.

 

[RichReef]

if you get the chance to post a shot of your tank under this combo, I would sure like to see how it looks.

I am NOT a great photographer.

 

[paragrouper]

That looks real good. I’ll certainly be. Considering that combo.